I notice you haven't answered the question yet. Why are Trump's folks lying about their contact with Russians? If it's all perfectly legal and above board (which it might be), why would so many of them lie about it?
You see what you want to see...for you and many on this board...you will only want to see Trump become entangled with illegal ties with Russians. That is really what this is about. If you can manufacture a false narrative that Trump is connected to Russia...you can make the connection mean whatever you want it to be...and in this case, yall are desperate to make him Putin's puppet...all in the hopes to delegitimize a democratically elected president. What you have conveniently ignored is actually data from verified sources as legitimate...The information released by Wikileaks has NEVER been discredited. How can you objectively state that you are looking for the best of the nation...when you ignore actual facts by real sources??? What is even more pathetic...is even after "wiretapping" Trump, democrats still lost the election in a massive way.
You seem to think the wiretap was from Obama to help Clinton. But Obama couldn't order a wiretap. The wiretap would have been for probable cause. Fortunately, Trump alerted Congress to find out why he was being wiretapped.
You are incredibly naive to think that the POTUS would NOT know which of his agencies ordered a wiretap...Secondly...the words used to describe the reasoning behind the tap wasnt probable cause but rather "due diligence..." As more information rapidly emerges..we will hear a ton more during any congressional oversight hearings. At first...some on this forum dismissed the idea that Trump was wiretapped...and that he is a loose cannon on twitter. blah blah...the usual bs. NOW, the narrative is that Trump was wired...but it didnt come from high ranking members in the #44 cabinet or from the man himself. Yes...Obama couldnt have directly made the order, but I am willing to bet that he surely knew who did.
It'll take awhile to put all this together (the Watergate investigation took, what? years), but when the proof of this Trump-Russia collusion is revealed (it's not like they wrote this stuff as graffiti on a wall for everyone to read), it'll be fun watching the Trumpanzees contort themselves to justify the whole thing. Or disappear. Whichever. As far as the Democrats, we could've lived with a Kasich. A Jeb. Many of the possibilities. We could've been okay with that. But President Bannon-Trump is sinking "lower than the slime at the bottom of a New Jersey scum pond" (Michael Douglas, "War of the Roses", or, at least, that's a close facsimile of the dialogue). No, actually, we have minds, and we're quite rightly justified in looking into this. Trump has been d*** riding Putin for a long while. Even had pro-Ukraine language removed from the party platform. Shrugged off "Putin is a killer". Asked Putin to find the missing Clinton emails. And so on. Since it was Putin who hacked Podesta and gave the info to wikileaks, and since many of Trump's surrogates have direct connections to Putin's happy place........yeah, it's worth investigating.
Gotta love this logic: the Russia connections are total BS to you despite people around Trump meeting with them (and lying about it) and Trump not releasing his tax returns and refusing to EVER criticize Putin and Russia. Yet you'll eat up that idiot's claim that he was wiretapped despite there being no proof whatsoever of it happening. Pretty amazing how skeptical you can be of some accusations while accepting 100% whatever this doofus tweets out. But by all means, keep telling every one else how they've lost their minds.
So you aren't manufacturing your own Trump-friendly narrative, right? You just think a guy who has spent his life exploiting other people (in casinos, in fake universities, etc, etc, even stiffing catering companies every chance he gets) is suddenly just smelling like a rose and worth defending with improbable logical constructions in every case. Yeah, 11 women lied about him groping them. Makes sense. Yeah, nothing fishy with not releasing his tax returns. No sir. That's normal. Nothing fishy when his son says they are invested very heavily in Russia and then dad has one cabinet member resign and another recuse over their intentionally (but why?) hidden ties to Russia. That seems normal. And on, and on. I'm not "desperate to make him Putin's puppet" -- I'm desperate for him to not be that. But why did dude bend over backwards to make his one and only change in the GOP platform, a bizarre pro-Russia stance on Ukraine? Oh, again, I am "manufacturing" by asking that sensible question. And you are a warrior for truth for ignoring that sensible question. I stand corrected, I guess, along with a lot of old school republicans. You see what you want to see, as much or morseso than those asking sensible questions (including Graham, McCain, former GWB officials, and on and on.) We don't want Trump to be anything dirty, but it will not do to just turn a blind eye if the dude is compromised somehow. The stronger the denials, the stranger the tweets, the more people wonder. Yes, the investigations will be interesting. I hope they are thorough and sensible and as non-partisan as possible.
Rich people want to get richer? Trump's properties are valued at $4 billion however he may very well be over-leveraged with a lot of debt. On paper he may be worth far less than $4 billion. Nobody knows for sure unless we see his financials but Trump not releasing his tax returns is highly suspect. Same goes for Tillerson. The value of his stocks in Exxon are contingent upon Exxon's performance. Half Trillion Dollar deal with Russia should boost up that value quite a bit.
It is pretty amazing the length Trump supporter will go back him up, but they will believe every bit of information he tweets out.
1. Perhaps the IRS will leak it...surprised it hasnt yet. 2. Sure lets criticize someone that he doesnt know...or someone he has met directly.. Perhaps Trump would share his personal views about Putin after meeting the guy. Do you have preconceived notions about everyone you meet? Based on your logic...Trump should accept Obama's ineffectiveness with the Russians and continue along the same path. 3. LOL..presenting the NYTimes https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/...a-associates-investigation.html?smid=pl-share 4. finally your lack of respect of the acting president of the united states...yea you've lost your mind. "idiot" "doofus"..yet he is the POTUS and a billionaire...and your typing out your frustrations on a bball internet forum.
IRS won't leak his tax returns lol. We need a special independent investigator with subpoena power who will request those tax returns. Donald has nothing to hide regarding his dealings with Russia and Russian businesses so he should welcome a thorough investigation to clear his name. Trump supporters should want this too. Unless Donald and his supporters are afraid of what an investigation with subpoena power will find.
This is true. Oil exec & Russia go hand in hand. However Exxon is different. And I know he's technically divested from financially benefitting from Exxon's profit but the big elephant in the room is the Exxon land rights they own in Russia. They have billions invested in Russian land rights that are held up by Sanctions. Also I've never met a rich person why didn't want to get more rich, but I think there is more here in play than just money. I also believe that loyalty could be a factor too. 30 years with the same company that took you from just an entry level engineer to the most powerful CEO in the country. Its not inconceivable to think that he is married to Exxon and likely views the people there as his extended family. Putting Putin's interest above US interests??.... I'd say its more likely to be a quid pro quo where Putin made a deal to have X, Y, & Z done for exchange of Russia's WikiLeaks campaign & potentially burying any damning information on Trump. I know the Dossier is unsubstantiated but we keep on seeing more and more random pieces of the Dossier getting verified so I do think there is something to be said of the MI6 guys claim that this is what was driving the Russia - Trump connection and what Putin wanted to get out of it. Again... I think Putin's goal was self interest to have the US's State Department walked back in Europe especially in the Baltic States starting with Ukraine- (see The RNC changing their Ukraine stance at the last minute before the RNC convention... Aide Gordon said on the record Trump himself ordered him to do so even though Trump initially denied having involvement... again.... why lie?) Tillerson (I believe) is there to see that X, Y, & Z are done, but he is first and foremost an American so I don't necessarily think he's going to be a flat out Russian Agent. He is however a business man who will uphold his end of the bargain. Which hopefully he's already done by gutting the State Department. Hopefully from here on (and with Russian and Trump seemingly separating a bit with political pressure) he can act in Americas interest, but we will see. I think it would be naïve to think that Putin doesn't have ways to get influence with him moving forward as well. We can't prove it now obviously but the more and more we learn the more we seem to find out that there is a big link here in Putin wanting to affect our State Department mostly as his quid pro quo in exchange for helping Trump in the election. Then there is Tillerson who knew Putin VERY well, and had never met Trump. Tillerson who "Randomly" was selected as Secretary of the STATE.
To swap sides for a minute and lend Trumpers some rational thinking, I'd go with this argument. While there was nothing wrong with business deals and conversations with Russians, they recognized that it could be twisted in a sinister way by political rivals, especially in a presidential campaign. So they hid the connections not because they did anything wrong, but only to deny political enemies the ammunition. You see politicians do this all the time, such as Hillary Clinton's delays and obfuscations about her email server, or the way presidents wait until after the election to do unpopular but wise governance like Obama's release of Gitmo prisoners. So the little white lies various people in Trump's campaign about connections to Russia are coming out now and Democrats are belatedly trying to capitalize on them. Sure, the lying makes them look guiltier than if they had told the truth from the start, but telling the truth might have cost Trump the election, and needlessly since they didn't actually do anything wrong. Anyone buying that? He doesn't own any Exxon stock. I did more reading to respond to you, and I don't believe even his future stock options are dependent on Exxon's performance. It looks like the present value of those stocks, marked to market, have been transferred to a blind trust that is forbidden from investing in Exxon. It's a one-time transfer that has probably already happened. It looks to me like he has zero exposure to Exxon's performance. I see no legal means for him to enrich himself by enriching Exxon. He would have to do so illegally, through informal channels and offshore accounts, etc. But, that's a risk you take with absolutely everybody you can appoint to this job. Putin could be wiring $1B in bit coins to John Kerry's anonymous account right now and we wouldn't know any better. I suppose Rex could do it just to make his old office buddies richer. I know I'm looking around my office right now to pick the coworkers I like so much that I'd betray my country so that I could make them richer. http://news.exxonmobil.com/press-re...reement-comply-conflict-interest-requirements
Michael Savage: "Have you ever met Vladimir Putin?” DJT: “Yes.” MS: “You have?” DJT: “Yes, a long time ago. We got along great, by the way.” https://www.yahoo.com/news/tape-sho...himself-again-on-putin-meeting-213245455.html
Yeah, I think it's just as probable that this is true as something nefarious or illegal or compromising. What adds fuel to that theory is they flipping lie about everything. When you see your boss lie about things routinely, it is natural to think, well, I can fib or white lie a little, or not answer fully. All that said, there are two things remaining, even with that theory. One we can probably answer, but one we should want to answer. 1. Why did Putin (and the evidence is clear, if you believe the intelligence community at all) want to interfere on Trump's behalf? The awful possibility is a prior arrangement and actual collaboration during the campaign. The mundane but more possible option is just that Trump would like a more chaotic U.S. that veers further from the roots of its democratic system. Many are now speculating that Putin never thought Trump could win but he just wanted to weaken HRC's presidency as much as possible. That's an interesting option too. We will never know for sure without some sort of awful smoking gun of collusion, but I doubt such a thing exists. So only "Uncle Putie" knows for sure, but he doesn't look like someone who shares much of inner thoughts. LOL. 2. What we should be able to answer is to what extent Trump's economic well-being has been tied to Russian interests, and to what extent those interests are even shady. Tax returns would help a little bit with that, but there's a money and paper trail to follow even without returns, I would think, at least long, telling parts of a trail. I trust that someone is following the money and not just reporting on his stupid tweets.
Trump only criticizes people that he knows personally? Huh? You seriously will find any reason to defend the guy, you're clearly the one who has lost his mind, don't worry though you're not alone in that department. And, by the way, you're also posting on a "bball Internet forum," good lord I'm not even sure why I waste my time with some people.
You are the clueless one. 1. Trump tweeted "Obama had my 'wires tapped.'" I.e. Obama ORDERED it, not that he knew which agency ordered it. You are misleading there. 2. A wiretap is not part of "due diligence." You don't even know what you are posting about.
Even in this best possible scenario in which Putin (you misspoke and wrote Trump, but I get you) did not collude with Trump but inserted himself into the presidential campaign unilaterally just to mess with us, and in which Trump doesn't have any compelling and material ties to Russian interests -- even then, how do you explain Trump's very pro-Russian position? He altered the RNC platform to favor Russia on the Ukraine policy. Flynn brokered a non-response to Obama's expulsion of diplomats. And when an American president should be irate about hacks and electoral manipulation, he instead makes excuses for Russia and talks about closer cooperation. Now, I can appreciate an argument that he sees cooperation with Russia in the fight against Islamic Extremism is in our geopolitical best interest. But, he goes well beyond a sort of arm's length endorsement of cooperation and bends over for infractions that we wouldn't even tolerate from an ally. What if France tried to influence our elections? What president would have a non-reaction to that, even though they are a close friend? Remember all the apologies we had to make when we got caught for spying on Merkel -- this is worse than that. The non-nefarious answer is that Trump is really that incompetent. But, I want to give him more credit than that. So why try this hard to make our enemy a friend?
Another link? Sources: FBI investigation continues into 'odd' computer link between Russian bank and Trump Organization http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/polit...-between-russian-bank-and-trump-organization/
