Do you guys want this sent to the D&D and merged with the thread there that makes it a political issue, or two separate threads?
Think it's still important to note that if it weren't for parents pushing their kids into uncomfortable situations, most kids wouldn't have tried anything. And I think that includes college. So even if this girl didn't want to go to school, I don't blame a parent for pushing her to try it.
The best remedy to this problem might be to admit that college is, to some degree, a scam. Note that these parents were evidently unconcerned that their kids—who were often coached to fake learning disabilities so they could get more time on the ACT and SAT—might struggle with their course loads. It's because college is a joke, and it's easy enough for an academically disinclined grifter—an Olivia Jade, if you will—to get by studying nonsense subjects. They're paying for the experience and the diploma, not the actual education. This is a point that Bryan Caplan raises in his excellent book The Case Against Education.Caplan argues that most of the value of a college education is signaling rather than skills. Students don't learn very much that will be useful to them in the job world, and even if they do, they quickly forget it. But a diploma signals to employers that the diploma-holder is competent in some abstract way—they jumped through a bunch of impressive-looking hoops, and are thus more worthy of a job than people who didn't. The implication of Caplan's research is that public funding of higher education is therefore a waste: It doesn't actually benefit society to subsidize a signaling mechanism if there's little relevant skill-gaining along the way. It just punishes everybody who, for whatever reason, doesn't have access to the right hoops. http://reason.com/blog/2019/03/13/college-bribery-scandal-defund-loughlin
Here comes the pain.... College cheating scandal: Lawsuits filed by students at elite schools A Stanford undergrad claims the value of her degree will now be diminished in light of the damaging allegations. March 14, 2019, 10:16 AM CDT / Updated March 14, 2019, 2:36 PM CDT By David K. Li The first lawsuits targeting elite universities and individuals charged by federal prosecutors in a sweeping college admissions scandal were filed by a student and a parent on Wednesday in California. In her suit, Stanford University undergrad Kalea Woods claimed to be damaged because of the time and money she wasted on applications to other schools implicated in the scandal. Separately, Jennifer Kay Toy, the parent who filed a civil complaint in San Francisco Superior Court, claimed that her son, Joshua, who had a 4.2 grade-point average, was not admitted to some schools because of the "despicable actions" of other parents implicated in the scandal. In addition, students from Tulane University, Rutgers University and a community college in Orange County, California, filed what they're hoping will become a class-action lawsuit against William Rick Singer, who allegedly organized the complex schemes for wealthy parents, and the implicated universities. Those schools are Stanford, the University of Southern California, the University of California, Los Angeles, the University of San Diego, the University of Texas, Wake Forest University, Yale University and Georgetown University. The scheme, said to be led by Singer who is now a cooperating witness, allegedly included bribes to university sports coaches, campus officials and fake test scores. The scandal came to light in federal indictments unsealed Tuesday in Massachusetts implicating many, including actresses Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman. Toy's lawsuit targets Loughlin, Huffman, Singer and others indicted in the alleged scheme. It does not name the universities caught up in the scandal, as defendants. "I'm now outraged and hurt because I feel that my son, my only child, was denied access to a college, not because he failed to work and study hard enough, but because wealthy individuals felt it was OK to lie, cheat, steal and bribe their children's way into a good college," according to Toy's state civil suit, that seeks class-action status. The campus at Georgetown University in Washington, DC, on March 12, 2019.Win McNamee / Getty Images Woods, of Stanford, a top-tier school in Palo Alto, California, had also applied to USC, according to her lawsuit, though it wasn't immediately clear if she had been accepted by the school. "At the time she applied, Woods similarly was never informed that the process of admission at USC was an unfair, rigged process, in which parents could buy their way into the university through bribery and dishonest schemes," the suit said. And even though Woods is now attending Stanford, ranked No. 7 in the latest U.S. News & World Report rankings, the federal lawsuit claims that her degree now won't carry as much weight. "Woods has also been damaged because she is a student at Stanford University, another one of the universities plagued by the fraud scandal," according to the lawsuit, which was filed in the Northern District of California. "Her degree is now not worth as much as it was before, because prospective employers may now question whether she was admitted to the university on her own merits, versus having rich parents who were willing to bribe school officials." Tulane student Lauren Fidelak claims she had a 4.0 high school GPA and scored 34 on her ACT, but still couldn't get into USC and UCLA. "She was so upset that she did not get into her chosen schools that she had an emotional breakdown and needed to be hospitalized in Boston," according to the lawsuit. Rutgers student Nicholas James Johnson was rejected by Stanford and Texas despite a 4.65 GPA earned with the help of advanced placement classes and a 1500 SAT score, according to the lawsuit. Tyler Bendis, who attends a community college in Orange County, said he had a 4.0 GPA but couldn't get into UCLA, Stanford or San Diego, his lawyers said. All the plaintiffs claimed they didn't get a fair shot at their first-choice campuses because of Singer and the "unfair admissions process" of the universities named as defendants. "The University of Texas has a thorough, holistic admissions process," UT spokesman J.B. Bird said in a statement. "The actions alleged by federal prosecutors against one UT employee were not in line with that policy and may have been criminal. They do not reflect our admissions process." USD spokeswoman Pamela Gray Payton said: "While we do not comment on pending litigation, our commitment to ethical conduct and integrity in our admissions policies and processes is unwavering. The university is conducting an investigation into the allegations." Representatives for Stanford, USC and UCLA could not be immediately reached for comment Thursday.
I wonder how she feels about the full house daughter looking to party at usc and hang on yachts with usc admins. Blatantly saying she there for game day and the parties. Hilarious. The notion that the usa is any kind of meritocracy is a complete joke. The notion that there isnt a hard line between the rich and the rest is a joke. Im proud of many things usa but until we can get past the idea that its not always about who is the best but who setup the best that wins then we are kidding ourselves. This smart chick was stupid enough to think her being smart enough matters. Thats the reality check and this full house daughter will be sitting on boards and likely the boss of this chick with a 4.0 Thats the way it goes people.
****ing lawsuits for everybody. “Hey honey, remember that time you cried because you missed out on USC?” “Yeah well there might be some money in it for us now.” Cmon man.
I’ve been saying this for years but hadn’t heard the term signaling before. Yeah college like high school wasn’t that useful looking back. You do basically forget most everything even going to work in the field you studied. Real life application is always different. Really you need more on the job training, mentoring, etc then textbook learning. As for the story oh look rich people break laws but because it’s a non violent crime and they can afford lawyers it will just go away. Meanwhile the middle class who earn over $100k and think they’ve achieved the American dream will continue to blame everything on immigrants and the fact that the poor people don’t pay their fair share of income taxes. Thus continuing the fight amongst the 99% for the crumbs that fell off the table.
The CIO at an IT job I had back in the early 00’s used to tell me the same thing about this ‘signaling’ - he said the degree is more about showing commitment and responsibility than gaining any actual experience or knowledge. It’s why I ultimately went back and finished my undergrad. I agree with the premise of the book to a certain extent, but STEM and Medical degrees have actual real merit. You can’t finish them without hard work and knowledge, and they’re actually useful. This whole story is pretty telling and I wonder how impacted the degree holders from these schools will be. I don’t think it will be as detrimental as a degree from Unitversity of Phoenix which is commonly known as a degree mill. After all, you still have to pass the classes at these schools to keep going, and there are millions of graduates out there that did it the old fashioned way. Overall I hope that it makes people question if they or their kids actually need that basketweaving degree for $100k.
Signaling only matters if they actually check your educational background, and who does that outside of a government job. Just put down the college you want and the degree. Hiring is still in the dark ages. I'd say about 1/4 of degrees do provide an actual skill, but only in small doses. Micro credentialing is the future tho. Learn the skill you need, get certified, and go get the job. I like the idea of eliminating the entire admission process, and just giving straight up online access to whoever wants the education. Anyone can go to Harvard, but you have to pass the credential. Get the credential to prove minimum or elite competence. Labs are probably the most important thing, real experience, and maybe that's where the colleges can make their real money and maintain relevance, give the real life experience, and provide the face to face experience, because honestly, once we move to an open system who won't take the Harvard education over the UCLA education. The best teachers will make all the money. But that's ok. We need to elevate the entire system and our country. That's what education should be. Pick what you want, with no barriers, and it's on you to deliver or not. There is no reason to limit access.
The best college should be the one Kylie Jenner attended. She is a billionaire. Take notes rich parents!!!
College isn’t a scam. It’s not an “education” per se, but even my buddy who works at a big home builder in town says the people with real degrees from real schools are better, less dramatic employees. It’s just a 4-5 year trial of character. The underlying problem is having wealthy people like this trying to funnel their kids through this merit based system with donations and bribes. My wife worked for HISD and I always thought it was weird that nicer parts of town had better public schools. It’s public money. Shouldn’t that be dispersed evenly throughout the state and city instead of funneled to already well endowed people?
