One of my big concerns on the Chris Webber front all along has been that he will go play with/for MJ in Washington. Webber has always admired MJ and could not pass up the chance to play with him or for him imo. Thus, I was wondering about this buyout question.... The Wizards apparently have the option to buyout Mitch Richmond's contract. I was wondering exactly how this works. He is listed to earn 10 mil so could they buy it out for 5 mil? Also, if another team signs Richmond for their 4.5 mil exception after the buyout (which has been rumored), would Mitch only count 500K on the Wizards salary cap? If so, they will have about 14 mil under the cap accoring to RealGM's numbers. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
MM, Don't worry. Webber's doublespeak about Washington on his halftime interview was one of the only clear signals I received: he wonders if the Wizards will compete after a couple years. ------------------
Hey Mazin! Puff could probably answer that buyout question better than anyone. As for Webber in WAS? They may have money now, and BskBALL thinks they are going to buyout Richmond, but they need it to pay Jordan and Barkley. MJ got $50 million for his last year in the NBA, and if he returns, he will ask for another ungodly number like that. The MJ experiment will cost Washington plenty and gain them little in return. They sell some tickets for one year? That's a short-term solution to a long-term problem. The funny thing is that this all started as a deal to get Barkley to lose weight. If Barkley hadn't opened his big mouth MJ would never have talked about retunring. Of course, that Barkley. All mouth. The Rocket Guy http://www.TheRocketGuy.com "You try to improve and do better. It's a journey, not just the destination." - Hakeem Olajuwon ------------------
Hey Bill, welcome to the board! My main concern about this which may just be paranoia is that I distinctly remember in the past that Webber used to consistently remark how he admires Jordan and how great he is. Remember that yr the Rockets won the ring from the 6th seed? At the beginning of the playoffs they asked Webber who he thought would win it all and he was the only one who picked the Rockets. The following yr, they asked him the same question and he answered something like "I cant pick against my main man Jordan." Anyone who has followed Webber closer can probably cite atleast a handful more times where he has talked about how great Jordan is, how much he admires him, etc. That being said, in response to Bill's assessment, I dont think for Jordan and Barkley this is a money issue. MJ simply wants the challenge of playing and winning again. The only way he'll come back is if he has a chance to win the whole thing, thus he's not going to come back to a lottery team. Pretty much the consensus on this board is that Webber would prefer playing in the East in order to dodge the crazy competition in the West till the Finals. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net [This message has been edited by MManal (edited June 07, 2001).]
Jordan won't mess up the organization by paying him a lot of money. If he comes back, he's going to buy back his share when he retires . . . AGAIN. ------------------
he Wizards apparently have the option to buyout Mitch Richmond's contract. I was wondering exactly how this works. He is listed to earn 10 mil so could they buy it out for 5 mil? Also, if another team signs Richmond for their 4.5 mil exception after the buyout (which has been rumored), would Mitch only count 500K on the Wizards salary cap? If so, they will have about 14 mil under the cap accoring to RealGM's numbers. The Wizards can buy out Richmond for no more than 50% of the remaining value of his contract. So, if he's making $10M, then at least $5M would count against their cap next year. Once his contract is bought out, his Washington contract is complete, so any deal he subsequently signs with another team has no effect on Washington's cap. MJ got $50 million for his last year in the NBA, and if he returns, he will ask for another ungodly number like that. Just to try to keep this realistic, Jordan made $33M for his last year in Chicago. Thats ungodly money, but it's nowhere near $50M. ------------------
aelliott, so are the waiving rules different from the buyout rules? Main issue at hand here is that when you waive someone, if another team signs them, you pay his salary minus what the other team pays. Does that rule not apply for buyouts? ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
No, a buyout is just that. When it is done, that's it. I agree that Webber would want to be in the East. If he goes to NY you can pretty much write them in as the Eastern Conference Champs. His statements that were quoted earlier in this thread, though, do not describe the Knicks. He'd be better off in SAC or Houston. That doesn't mean he will, just that it makes more sense. The Rocket Guy http://www.TheRocketGuy.com "You try to improve and do better. It's a journey, not just the destination." - Hakeem Olajuwon ------------------
One other question, Washington has a trade exception of 1.47 mil. If they drop below the cap do they lose that or does that rule only apply to mid level and 1 mil exceptions etc? ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
The way I read it is that a buyout implies a waiver. If the player is picked up off waivers, that means another team took his entire contract...great for Wash! If he clears waivers, that means Wash owes him the contract, and anyone can sign him for only the minimum (Wash paying the rest). At this time is when the buyout happens (for lack of skill). The team and player agree to an amt. That amt is a salary cap hit, distributed evenly over the remainder of the contract. So, as far as salary cap is concerned, the waiver rule is identical to the buyout rule, just that the buyout can lower the hit to the agreed lower salary compensation package due to lack of skill. As for the trade exception, it counts as a salary hit just like other team exceptions (as opposed to what I call player exceptions like the minimum salary and the Bird exceptions). You must fall below the combined amount of your team exceptions (to include any trade exceptions) to erase them. However, teams are allowed to simply renounce any and all team exceptions to erase them as salary cap hits.
and let me add, aelliott always has a better read of the CBA than me. Please correct any misreadings. As an aside, just to further his point about Jordan's salary, MJ cannot come back at $33m. He is now max'd at the standard max for his yrs.
The way I read it is that a buyout implies a waiver. Hp, I don't believe that is correct. In the CBA, the actual wording used for a buyout is "early termination option". That implies that you are paying a fee to terminate the contract. So, therefore, the team would no longer have any obligation to the player. In a waiver situation, you terminate your (the team's) rights to a player, but you are still contractually obligated to them (assuming it's a guarenteed deal). Here's the actual definition of "Option Buy-Out Amount" from Article 1 of the CBA: (kk) "Option Buy-Out Amount" means any amount payable to a player in connection with either the exercise of an Early Termination Option or the non-exercise of an Option. ------------------ [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited June 08, 2001).]
aelliott, I'm referring to a scenario that Coon mentions, when not talking about ETOs. He basically says some contracts have buy-outs written into them. Some don't. However, all contracts can be bought out for "lack of skill", although arbitration can occur sometimes. I don't know the specifics of Richmond, so if he does have a buy-out written into the contract, my general purpose buy-out thingie is mute, as you say. Coons says a Buyout starts with a Waiver; I assume since it is better for the team and player if the player's contract actually gets accepted off waivers at full value, or because the whole reason to do it is because the players and team wants to "divorce" each other. If we are talking Option yrs, then no waiver needs to occur to end the contract, obviously, again as you say. Are we talking about an Option yr for Richmond, here? btw: do you actually have the full text now?? It makes more sense to me to first waive a player who's contract you wish to buy-out. hell, why not? [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited June 08, 2001).]
In this case, I believe that there's a buy out amount specified in Richmond's contract. Check out this article from the Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/sports/leaguesandsports/nba/19992000/miamiheat/A40363-2001Apr4.html There's a few things of interest: - first of all the buy out of Richmond seems to be $10M rather than the $5M that had been mentioned in several threads. His contract has two years and $20 million remaining on what originally was a four-year, $40 million deal. Richmond, who must be bought out by midnight June 30, was placed on the injured list yesterday with a sprained right knee ligament. - Notice that Washington has a deadline for buying out the deal. That would only apply in the case of a buy out clause that was written into the contract. . "They really haven't said anything about the buyout, but that's what people expect." Sounds like the Wizards will be making the decision on a buy out. If it were the scenario that you described, then it would have to be a mutual decision between Richmond and the team. btw: do you actually have the full text now?? It's available at the NBA Player's Association web site: http://www.nbpa.com/ Notice that their public calendar is already listing 7/15 as the date that free agents can begin signing with teams. I wasn't aware that date was official yet. ------------------
To all, If the above is correct, which I assume it is lets apply that to the Rocks. At what point do we buyout Maloney or Cato. I know Cato is several years off if he sticks (Oh ROCKET!!! haven't you heard, there are several teams lining up for Cato's services, but Maloney's break-loss point is clearly approaching. Thoughts???? ROCKET!!! ------------------
Just another quick thought, why couldn't we apply this to Williams contract to clear extra cap space this year - essentially reduce the $5,000,000 payout to $2,500,000? ROCKET!!! Of course, I am presuming a buyout clause in each of these contracts. ------------------
Don't presume a buyout clause is inked. My understanding is they are really only part of option years, by and large. I think it is safe to say that contracts without option yrs, likely do not have special buyout provisions. In that case, the player actually has to agree to be bought out, and rarely ever has incentive to do so. Why would Maloney agree to less salary than is signed in his contract? Just to help us. Buyouts are most likely very isolated cases. Don't start a bunch of rumors that we can purge salary by buying out contracts. If that were the case, don't you think every team would be trying it more often, and you would hear much more cases of this around the internet?
It is my understanding that Maloney was bought out. The buyout was then spread across the remainder of the length of the ciontract to determine what amount will count against the cap. We have already paid Maloney but that amount was spread over the length of the contract for Cap reasons. It's time to get over our mistakes. Every team has them and ours are not near as bad as a lot of teams. ------------------
here we are getting to the point where buyout and waived sound so similar. Rocketsauce, Maloney was just waived. The rules of the CBA require that the remainder of the contract* still counts towards your cap as if he still played for you...ie still spread out over those contract yrs. You are not allowed to just waive people for less cap, nor to collapse it all into a one lump sum to avoid cap hits in future yrs. And buyout may never be forced upon players. They must agree to them via a contract clause or flat out acceptance of less pay on the condition of being released. * remainder of the contract minus the minumum salary paid by the team who picks him up after he clears waivers. Same with Augmon and MacLean and Shaw and all those guys we had to eat in order to unload Pippen and get Francis. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited June 08, 2001).]
