1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Battier and...Wafer should rotate on Roy

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by H-TownBBall, Apr 22, 2009.

  1. clutch citizen

    clutch citizen Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    Messages:
    5,326
    Likes Received:
    2,089
    I like Wafer chasing Fernandez. He has make-up speed for those picks and curls Fernandez takes waltzing through the lane
     
  2. Al Capone

    Al Capone Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,635
    Likes Received:
    36
    You know what really chaps my ass?

    How Ron and Shane can lockdown arguably the best baller in the world (LeBron) as we beat the title contending cavs who have the best record in the NBA, yet Roy lights them up for 50 points and hits all sorts of miracle shots from everywhere on the floor.
     
  3. nomad_balla

    nomad_balla Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    3
    i think ron was more interested in hoisting up jumpers in the second game than really committing himself to playing defense. i thought he played terrible on man defense and help defense. also, roy was just hitting his shots. but i thought ron could have done better. i really think the rockets didn't help each other that well in the second game. the help was often late. the lane was never sealed in the middle. the rockets were shooting 50% while all this is happening and for the whole time, the team thought they can beat portland with offense.
     
  4. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,950
    Likes Received:
    36,510
    I don't know where you people get this. Here's newsflash, when the Blazers set a screen and roll with a super fast player and the worst P&R defender in the entire league is standing in your way, it's very hard to get past both the screen and the slow-moving unintentional screen set by Yao no matter if you're ron Ron Artest, Shane Battier (who, btw is slower than Ron) or Von Wafer.

    One-on-one, Ron does a fine job on Roy, as said yesterday, the killer 3 pointer from Roy was 1-on-1vs. Ron, where he forced him to pull up and take an off balance three a few feet outside the line - that's a shot that the Rockets will live with 10 times out of 10. If it goes in then it goes in.

    if you are honestly arguing that Wafer is not a substantial drop off from Artest on defense, you really need to watch some games.
     
  5. H-TownBBall

    H-TownBBall Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    718
    Likes Received:
    27
    I agree that in general Battier and Artest are better defenders than Wafer. I know defense is mainly about dedication and intelligence, not athleticism. However, Roy is just a bad matchup for Battier and Artest. He is too athletic and fast for them. Von may do some stupid things in the process of defending Roy, but he has the recovery speed to at least stop Roy from going uncontested to the basket on the other side of the pick. Give Battier 75% of the time on Roy and Von the other 25%. Artest needs to matchup with their jump shooting PF Aldridge. That non-aggressive style of offense that Aldridge plays deserves defense from a smaller forward. We just so happen to have a huge SF in Artest.
     
  6. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,950
    Likes Received:
    36,510
    This doesn't seem to make sense. Artest and Battier are elite perimeter defenders in the league. These are guys who regularly harass Kobe and LeBron etc and are sometimes successful at it (mind you they don't always win, for reasons explained below) - however Brandon Roy is beyond their capacities and requires the services of a mediocre to poor defender like Wafer because Wafer has a quicker first step while driving to the basket?

    Defense is more about anticipation and intelligence - it is not about having a quick first step. If that were the case, Aaron Brooks would be a lockdown defender when in reality he is a sieve. By contrast, slow-footed plodders like Bruce Bowen would not have racked up tons of all-defensive team nominations.

    The reason for this is that, in the end, a player moving forward will, ceteris paribas, beat a player moving backwards where they are both moving the same distance, especially at the NBA level. Accordingly smart defenders like Battier and Artest try to make up for this disadvantage by using anticipation and intelligence to limit their inherent disadvantages. Wafer's extra quickness is nice, but ultimately it's not going to be enough, especially against the likes of Roy. So you don't gain anything there, which is why the Rockets defense suffers noticeably when he is in the game.
     
  7. BrooksBall

    BrooksBall Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    20,568
    Likes Received:
    256
    ^^^ Bruce Bowen was not a slow-footed plodder in his prime. He's not even a slow-footed plodder in the twilight of his career. His lateral quickness was twice that of Battier or Artest on a good day and he had more than enough footspeed to stick to his man like glue. Artest and Battier have difficulty staying with quicker perimeter players, especially if they get slowed down by picks. Both Artest and Battier have slow stop and start speed and change of direction speed. Bowen had excellent stop and start speed and change of direction speed in addition to his superior lateral quickness. Simply put, Bowen was physically quicker than Artest or Battier in every conceivable way.
     
    #27 BrooksBall, Apr 23, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2009
  8. H-TownBBall

    H-TownBBall Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    718
    Likes Received:
    27
    Bump because Von started on Roy when he came in the game.
     
  9. H-TownBBall

    H-TownBBall Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    718
    Likes Received:
    27
    Not so much anymore lol...nvm
     
  10. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,950
    Likes Received:
    36,510
    I think when Channing Frye blew by Wafer on the perimeter, and he used his catch up speed to foul him, it pretty much illustrated what is wrong with this idea.

    Uhh...I think you might be overestimating Bruce Bowen's relative athleticism just a tad insofar as you are basically arguing he is one of the greatest athletes in NBA history...why was he so inept offensively then if he was so good? If he was as fast as you say, he'd have no trouble crossing over defenders left and right.....:confused:
     
    #30 SamFisher, Apr 24, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2009
  11. H-TownBBall

    H-TownBBall Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    718
    Likes Received:
    27
    I concede that he just isn't smart enough yet with his defense. But if he ever figures it out he would be a very good option against quick guards. Battier and Artest are best against elite SFs (Lebron, Anthony).

    He simply has bad handles. Plus I would imagine he gets pretty tired from playing all out on the defensive end.
     
  12. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    56,814
    Likes Received:
    39,127
    One of the most brilliant things Adelman did tonight was yank Wafer after several stupid plays by the goofus. Love the guy most of the time, but goddam, he practically put Portland back in the game by himself.
     
  13. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    21,663
    Likes Received:
    13,914
    Battier 2 steals, 4 blocks and 1 clutch three.
     
  14. HtownForever

    HtownForever Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    VON HAD 3 TURN OVERS.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now