Yeah there are some things I would like to add here but....it doesn't matter I don't have a problem including steroid era players in a list of top 100, I think Bagwell is a good player, there are just 100 players I rate better than him - putting up a bunch of meaningless stats that never amounted to anything substantive in the end, just doesn't do it for me. When it really counted during the playoffs with the Braves, and he came up to the plate in game and series winning moments- he just seemed like an average player.
OK, but again, by that same logic, there's a ton of guys who don't have impressive postseason resumes. Are you going to going to eliminate Ted Williams, Ken Griffey, Tony Gwynn, Ichiro, Ty Cobb, etc. from consideration because of their lack of postseason success? I just don't think your logic makes a ton of sense unless you're going to be consistent with your own list of all-time greats. And if you truly are, and you're eliminating all guys who played in the steroid era and who have underwhelming postseason resumes, I think your list is going to be pretty awful. Edit: And for the record, I can appreciate the subjectivity of conversations like this. I'm not saying there's zero case to be made for Bagwell to not be in the top 100, but I think your case needs to be better than "he played in the steroids era and his postseason numbers aren't great." I just don't think either arguments hold much weight by themselves when compared to other all-time greats who would inevitably be on that list.
I think the issue here is just how many good baseball players there have been in the history of MLB, 60 players goes by real fast, 100 in nothing, and being 120 on the list is nothing to sneeze about. I put a player like Rod https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/carewro01.shtml ahead of Bagwell, numbers aside because of his impact on hitting and the game of baseball.
OK, but Rod Carew who is one guy. Who are the other 99? I think it's easy to say "Player X wouldn't be in my top 100." But when you're actually forced to name 100 players better, you start to see examples of guys who are questionable choices at best. I've never done this exercise in baseball. But I've done it a lot with basketball (I'm a big NBA nerd), and there have been times where I've said things like "Elgin Baylor wouldn't be in my top 50." But when I went and actually looked at the list, I had a hard time justifying it.
Not meaningless, and they did amount to something. Ah. As I predicted earlier, that's what this is really about. You're welcome to that opinion. I and many others disagree, but you're not alone in your only-playoffs-matter world. Interesting lists you found. The BR list is complete rubbish. So many issues with that list. Couldn't disagree with you more about Carew. His impact on hitting doesn't measure up to that of Bagwell, especially when it comes to power. He has a couple more career WAR--a cumulative stat--and he played four years longer. I saw them both in their prime. Bagwell was better. Better fielder for sure. Better baserunner. Better hitter. Just better.
I am going to go out on a limb and say that the name: "Pedro Guerrero" is going to be on his list.... He also strikes me as a Steve Garvey, Pete Rose and Gil Hodges fan....... Players were men back then unlike these recent modern dandies.
1. Joe Morgan 2. Pete Rose 3. Justin Verlander 4. Hank Aaron 5. Reggie Jackson 6. Barry Bonds 7. Babe Ruth 8. Bob Feller 9. Willie Stargell 10. Roy Campanella 11. Robin Yount 12. Willie McCovey 13. Ichiro Suzuki 14. Rod Carew 15. Fergie Jenkins 16. Mariano Rivera 17. Juan Marichal 18. Nolan Ryan 19. Roger Clemens 20. Johnny Bench 21. Pedro Martinez 22. Yogi Berra 23. George Brett 24. Roberto Clemente 25. Derek Jeter 26. Steve Carlton 27. Cal Ripken Jr. 28. Eddie Mathews 29. Nap Lajoie 30. Bob Gibson 31. Mike Schmidt 32. Warren Spahn 33. Tris Speaker 34. Sandy Koufax 35. Frank Robinson 36. Lefty Grove 37. Rickey Henderson 38. Tom Seaver 39. Alex Rodriguez 40. Grover Cleveland Alexander 41. Randy Johnson 42. Albert Pujols 43. Christy Mathewson 44. Mel Ott 45. Jimmie Foxx 46. Ken Griffey Jr. 47. Joe DiMaggio 48. Mickey Mantle 49. Greg Maddux 50. Honus Wagner 51. Rogers Hornsby 52. Cy Young 53. Stan Musial 54. Lou Gehrig 55. Walter Johnson 56. Ty Cobb 57. Ted Williams 58. Willie Mays 59. Eddie Collins 60. Hank Greenberg 61. Carl Yastrzemski 62. Eddie Murray 63. Kid Nichols 64. Cap Anson 65. Eddie Plank 66. Frank Thomas 67. Miguel Cabrera 68. Ernie Banks 69. Carl Hubbell 70. Chipper Jones 71. Jim Palmer 72. Tony Gwynn 73. Gaylord Perry 74. Jim Thome 75. Old Hoss Radbourn 76. Brooks Robinson 77. Al Simmons 78. Mike Piazza 79. Whitey Ford 80. Jackie Robinson 81. Wade Boggs 82. Roy Campanella 83. Bert Blyleven 84. Phil Niekro 85. Charlie Gehringer 86. Shoeless Joe Jackson 87. Tom Glavine 88. Harmon Killebrew 89. Johnny Mize 90. Paul Waner 91. George Sisler 92. Ozzie Smith 93. Vladimir Guerrero 94. Mike Trout 95. John Smoltz 96. Catfish Hunter 97. Billy Hamilton 98. Lefty O'Doul 99. Ed Delahanty · Dan Brouthers · Harry Heilmann · Willie Keeler · Bill Terry · Jesse Burkett · Pete Browning I put more emphasis on contact because that negates supplements bs of modern baseball, in fact, give me 9 DJ LeMahieu hitters in a lineup versus homerun hitters any day of the week. I think much of the power stats are motivated from hunting for large free agent contracts, but fails terribly in the playoffs with better pitching - this is how I view Bagwell - hits bad pitching well, struggles mightily against quality pitching - has big holes in his swing that the Braves pitchers exploited in the playoffs - thus , he is a good player who really took advantage of the steroid era to bulk up and inflate his power stats.
Okay we will have to remove a lot of guys off your list. The guys in the 50’s-70’s were notorious meth users. So we have to remove players like Aaron, Robinson, Mantle, Killebrew, Koufax, Hunter, Rose and Hunter (who isn’t remotely in the top 100 anyway). We also need to remove Thome as he was in the steroid era. Gwynn was also in the steroid era and a known greenie user. Mike Piazza as well.
