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Astros Trade option(s)

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by ZeroPoint, Apr 14, 2017.

  1. SS0101

    SS0101 Member

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    I have always thought that Springer is the odd man out when it comes to our big 3 of Altuve, Correa, and Springer. I think they do whatever they can to sign Correa and Altuve long term. Which is probably the smart thing to do considering how old Spinger will be at the time he hits the market. But, how much would another run to the ALCS and another World Series in the next 2 consecutive years where Springer is again a catalyst for us change that? I dont know. We are still collecting data points on what Crane is like with the pocket book. He definitely talks a big game though. Just seems unlikely to keep them all.

    Bregman's development might also price us out of the running for him as well if Correa and Altuve are resigned. He is looking more and more like a stud. Those are the only real cornerstone options outside of prospects. I dont think we will resign any of our pitchers. It seems smarter to trade for or develop your own pitching rather than sign pitchers to long term deals.
     
    raining threes likes this.
  2. SS0101

    SS0101 Member

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    Seems realistic...but I hope this isnt the case. Rebuild is just such a strong word. Maybe I am suffering from flashbacks but dang. I guess that is a possible and even likely scenario because they will command a lot of money. Next offseason will be interesting to see what harper and machado get. That will give us some good insight to what they will demand.
     
  3. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    Right. If Darvish and Arrieta are forced to sign well short of $100M it may make Keuchel and Cole much more willing to listen to extension offers. If Darvish and Arrieta get north of $150M then we know it’s highly likely Keuchel and Cole will sign elsewhere. And next offseason Harper and Machado will give us an idea of what Correa, Springer, Altuve, and Bregman will cost.

    I am hopeful the next CBA will make it easier for midmarket teams to keep their stars and make tanking a much less desirable tactic, but I’m not optimistic that they’ll avoid a labor stoppage, much less achieve an outcome that works in Houston’s favor.
     
  4. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    The guy who went 3-for-26 with a .349 OPS in the ALCS? Got it. If the Astros don't beat the Yankees, no one is talking about what an automatic playoff performer George Springer is. Playoff performance, given the sample size, is completely random. We don't KNOW George Springer will perform in the playoffs any more than we KNOW Christian Yelich won't.

    We what we DO know is that both Springer and Yelich are good players and should be expected to perform well in the postseason. (Besides, the whole point of this exercise was to make it anonymous so in this example, you really don't have any idea how they'll do in the postseason - which is good, because basing the future direction of your franchise on ~100 ABs is remarkably silly.)
     
  5. HTM

    HTM Member

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    You would think the trend of fewer teams being willing to spend money would be good for the Astros and their retention of players right? I mean, since so many teams aren't willing to spend and are pretty much actively tanking it really cuts down the number of teams available to hand out large contracts.... and even then a lot of those big spending contenders are already pushing the spending envelope.

    Seems like its a good thing for the Astros so many teams are becoming less willing to spend big money.
     
  6. the shark

    the shark Member

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  7. the shark

    the shark Member

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    Yep the guy who was 7 for 17 against Boston and the WS FREAKIN MVP
     
    Plowman likes this.
  8. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Yes; I've heard of him. George Springer was great over the course of those non-consecutive 46 ABs; he was the exact opposite of great in the ALCS.

    His up/down/up postseason underscores the randomness. No one should put too much stock in the postseason.
     
    BigM likes this.
  9. kaleidosky

    kaleidosky Your Tweety Bird dance just cost us a run

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    I feel like you can easily swap K Tucker for Acuna in this article. And then, I'm guessing the author would say [Tucker] for Yelich makes sense for a team trying to win now. (Spoiler alert: He says Acuna for Yelich would make sense if the Braves were ready to contend.)

    I disagree because as I've said before, I think Yelich doesn't move the needle on "odds of winning the WS" as much as he might on some other contenders because the Astros are already so damn good. (And I absolutely love Yelich. I believe in his future.)

    https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/ronald-acuna-for-christian-yelich-is-not-a-crazy-ask/
     
  10. Nook

    Nook Member

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    This is a very respectable position. I personally try and get something done with Yelich.
    I don't know, I think Yelich makes us clearly better.

    My concern is that we don't want to find ourselves where the Cubs found themselves. They traded a lot of their minor league players and were not able to plug the holes they developed effectively.

    The reality is that there will be something that goes wrong, someone will get hurt or not perform and it could be a big problem. So it is good to have the ability to fix those issues and Tucker could possibly do that.

    Still a line up of

    Springer
    Reddick
    Altuve
    Correa
    Bregman
    Yelich
    Gurriel
    Gattis
    McCann

    Is nasty................
     
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  11. kaleidosky

    kaleidosky Your Tweety Bird dance just cost us a run

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    Agree that Yelich makes us clearly better...I just don't think those extra regular season wins are worth a ton if you're already in the 1 seed.

    The Cubs had a confluence of very unexpected things happen at the same time. Zobrist and Heyward were absolutely awful. Bryant also "regressed' to his rookie year, and Rizzo had by far his worst year in his last 4. Of their core hitters, only Javy Baez and Contreras met/slightly exceeded expectations. Oh, and of course Schwarber never returned to form...they had a lot of equity in him. On the pitching side, Arrieta regressed, and Lackey and Lester were bad. Only Hendricks and Quintana pitched well, and they made up 1 starter's workload.

    All that to say, if you get hit by everyone sucking or getting hurt at once, yeah you're going to face serious regression. But trading for a Yelich (or having a Tucker) won't fix that.
     
  12. LongTimeFan

    LongTimeFan Contributing Member

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    If you were to take a step back and look in the mirror, ask yourself: how much have the Astros really improved?

    Zero upgrades offensively. I still have nightmares about our bats going silent in NY.

    Pitching? Joe Smith is a good addition. Rondon sucks. Who knows if Cole is great or average -- but I'm not convinced he will be a big upgrade over other options (Peacock).

    I'm worried the Astros and fans think they won the WS, so they can stand pat. Heck, I wanted offensive reinforcements at last year's deadline. This year, I'd rather not rely on a rookie LF who hit .200 in his first stint in the league. Yelich is a BIG upgrade over Fisher, Marwin, anyone we've got.

    I would be looking hard at trading for Yelich or signing JD Martinez. I'd feel a lot better about our chances if we upgraded the offense.
     
    pw1993 likes this.
  13. MrBear1

    MrBear1 Contributing Member

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    Stand pat??

    We added Joe Smith, added Rondon (who doesnt suck... he hasnt been elite like two years ago but his peripherals are still good and I trust Strom can get him right). Gerritt Cole is obviously an upgrade over Brad Peacock, I mean come on.

    The offense was amazing last year and everyone returns. The DH spot will be much improved this year too with Gattis and company getting at bats and not a 40 year old Carlos Beltran.

    Oh yeah, and the offseason is far from over. JD Martinez would be a horrible signing by the way unless we got him at a super discounted deal.
     
  14. BigM

    BigM Contributing Member

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    We’ve clearly improved the roster with likely continued progression from key offensive players(Correa and Bregman). The Yankees series happened because it’s baseball. You could have an all star team go cold for a number of games. And you could argue we had an all-star offense. I’m all for continued improvement if the cost is right but I don’t really see valid complaints at this point.
     
  15. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    No Carlos Beltran is an offensive upgrade.

    The bullpen is improved with Smith or Rondon being a capable Gregerson replacement (especially the 2017 version), and the other is an improvement over Hoyt/Feliz.

    Cole is a massive improvement over Mike Fiers.

    I'd love to have Yelich and would trade Tucker for him, but the Astros have improved already. They are a LF & superstar closer from being a perfect team.
     
  16. LongTimeFan

    LongTimeFan Contributing Member

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    Joe Smith is a nice bullpen piece. He's not a closer, and probably not even an 8th inning guy. He helps, but he doesn't solve anything. I like the signing though.

    Rondon does suck. Agree to disagree. Hoyt/Feliz barely pitched for us -- I will be very happy if Rondon takes their role.

    If ya'll want to make Gerrit Cole into a hype all-star, go for it -- I disagree, but I hope you're right. Cole has declined the last two years while Peacock shined as both a starter and in relief for us -- on the biggest stages. I mean there's a reason we only had to give up Musgrove and smaller pieces for Cole.

    JD Martinez was just a suggestion of an available LF that would be a big improvement. No, I don't want to sign him for 5 years / 100M.

    We are returning the same team except adding Joe Smith and replacing Peacock in the rotation with Cole. I honestly don't think we've improved that much. I think it's a mistake to assume the team can repeat one of the best offensive seasons in MLB history. We need to upgrade our lineup.
     
  17. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    It’s January 18th.
     
  18. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Peacock doesn't disappear. He adds a strong arm to the pen.
    Astros have Verlander all year.
    Cole adds a innings eater. He should be an improvement over Fiers.
    With Cole and Verlander, bullpen should be more rested such that we might get vintage Devenski all season.
    Correa is a year older and likely won't get hurt this year.
    Martes is a year older.
    Whitley looks like he'll fight for a rotation spot, but more likely is just there to provide relief in playoffs.
    McHugh as AWOL most of the season.
    If Tucker and Fisher aren't ready, still can make a move at deadline.

    Will the Astros win the World Series. Don't know, but they should cruise through regular season.
     
    mikol13 likes this.
  19. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

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    We have Verlander for the entire year. Do you realize we used 11 starters last year? Cole may not be better than Peacock..... but I will take him over Musgrove, Martes, Paulino, Fiers, and Dayan Diaz who all started games for the Astros. Also, having Peacock and Smith in the bullpen is a big upgrade. Rondon is a relatively cheap gamble. He has closer stuff and maybe our coaching staff can turn his career around like Peacock. If not, he can be the Michael Feliz of last year and get mop up duty.

    The offense was historically great last year. Also, who are you going to put in LF that is available and better than Marwin? Sure Marwin had a career year but even old Marwin plus Fisher and Marisnick should be enough with this offense. JD Martinez is not an option. You want to pay him instead of Altuve or Correa? Astros need to hold onto minor league talent and salary space for the trade deadline when you see what injuries or under performers on your team you need to replace. Which is why I am not interested in Yelich or Realmuto right now. The prospect price is too high. Also, Marwin had a better year last year than Yelich anyway.

    Jim Crane laid it out this morning on the radio. They have to be smart and go for it now without sacrificing the whole future. So far I would say they did a pretty good job getting Verlander and Cole without giving up Tucker, Whitley, or even Martes.
     
  20. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    Hoyt appeared in 43 games, pitching 49.1 innings
    Feliz appeared in 46 games, pitching 48 innings

    Only Gregerson, Giles, & Devenski appeared in more games for us.

    Rondon is so terrible he has a career ERA of 3.22
     
    jim1961 likes this.

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