On top of it all, it was a 1-2 pitch RIGHT DOWN THE FREAKING MIDDLE. What... does Russ Springer think he throws 100 mpH??? Guys can handle your wimpy and straight 93 mph fastball after they see it more than just once.
He shouldn't have to (and he didn't). This should have been a textbook win... now, instead of picking up 3 games in the win column, we can (at best) only pick up 1 if we win tommorow.
What a demoralizing loss......just when it looked like we were turning the corner. These one-run losses have got to stop.
I hope I'm wrong, but I see this being the kind of game that can carry over for some time. We don't have much margin for error... and to completely give away a game against the lowly Rockies is inexcusable. Lidge hasn't pitched in what, four days? He can't come in with 2 outs in the 8th? Or we can't use our righty with a 1.89 ERA? I appreciate Garner for what he did last year, but his loyalty to veterans like Franco and Springer is mind-boggling.
After Franco gives up the hit... you bring in Wheeler, not Springer... every single time (if you're that concerned about Lidge pitching too many 8th innings... I can understand that... but you have to bring in Wheeler). No kidding. I mean, Springer had given up 4 hits in 10 innings this month. And TWO runs! His ERA was well over 1. Simply unacceptable to use him. The key to winning in the long run is trusting two relievers only.
Its not loyalty... its micromanaging. I swear... ever since that "genius" up in St. Louis (Tony Larussa) started inventing "specialist" roles in the bullpen, every single manager has tried to emulate it because they feel like it makes them more involved in the game. Most of the time, it works... its a very good system when run correctly. But, when you start mixing your "textbook" moves with managing with your gut (which Garner does far too often), it will completely backfire (just ask Larry Dierker about that). First of all, he brings in Qualls (since its not a save situation)... which I can live with considering he's looked pretty good his last few outings. But, as soon as he gives up two hits, while still getting one out, Garner sees a couple of lefties coming up (including Helton), and the micromanaging commences! Franco is a decent lefty... esp. for his age... but after the 8th inning, you go with your best unless one of them is specifically unavailable (which, to our knowledge, both Lidge and Wheeler should have been ready to go tonight). Then after Franco neither fails nor succeeds (he gives up one run, but he does almost induce an inning-ending DP), he decides to go w/ his gut. After all this, he now decides to go with his gut?!? Springer made Wilson look silly last night, so obviously the same thing has to happen again... right?!? Ugh... I already mentioned in a previous post BEFORE that AB that I was extremely concerned about a fly ball pitcher being brought in with the TYING run at the plate. It wasn't as if Springer needed the work, either. It was just a bad GUT decision that never should have been made. I know it looks like I bashed TLR's system... especially since its yielded only 1 WS championship when he's had team's that have had immense talent... but I just hate the way that "save situations" and the "3" run lead dictate how managers manage games.
There's a difference between trusting him, and bringing him into the 8th inning with the tying run at the plate... in the greatest HR park of all-time, while he's strictly a fly-ball pitcher. Also, look at his CAREER numbers... they'll likely tell you a much better story than your 1 month sample that you just recited. I trust Springer to work long relief and maybe a 7th inning when we have a lead (which is unlikely since most of our studs go 7 automatically when we give them a lead).
I trust Springer to work long relief and maybe a 7th inning when we have a lead (which is unlikely since most of our studs go 7 automatically when we give them a lead). That's nice, but that's not going to get us back into the playoff race. If we want to win and win consistently, we're going to have LOTS of close games - this isn't a team that's going to blow people out. That means you're going to have lots of situations where you have close leads in late innings, especially with the quality of our starters. If Springer and Qualls don't perform, this team is not going to win in the long haul. You don't sit there and keep running out the same two people because you don't trust anyone else. If other pitchers are pitching well - and Springer has been pitching amazingly well for a month now - you spread the load out between them. Bringing in Wheeler in every close game will win you a few games. It won't get you a winning season. In his last 10 outings, including a number of close games, Springer has pitched the 8th or 9th inning in 8 of them. That's a role that he's excelled at all month long - and not coincidentally, a month that we've played our best baseball. Wheeler pitched yesterday, if all went well, the idea was that Wheeler wouldn't pitch today. Springer and Wheeler have been sharing the workload, just like it should be.
This is probably oversimplified, but if it's a close game and all guys are available, I'd want Wheeler pitching the 8th and Lidge the 9th. Springer has been pitching very well lately (1.93 ERA in June), but if I'm going into an intense situation, I want a guy whose been doing it all year long, not just lately. It's hard to see us lose a game with a guy warming in up in the bullpen with a 1.89 ERA and he never gets in the game.
Horrible, I can't believe we lost this one. I went out to eat and came back and there was 2outs in the 9th and us down a run!? They hit a Grand Slam too?! AHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Damnit Springer, you're like Miceli. Go away!
Believe it or not, there are actually enough games throughout the year where you CAN have the same two pitchers pitch the 8th and 9th inning of games that you are winning after the 7th, and still have their arms in-tact for the long haul. If one of them has pitched 3 days in a row, you consider resting them and go with another guy (which wasn't the case tonight... Wheeler only pitched yesterday... Lidge hadn't pitched since Friday). I understand your overall point (making sure not to overwork certain members of the bullpen)... but would you honestly turn Russ Springer into a bonafied set-up man in what is essentially a "one" run game (with the tying run already on base)??? I could buy bringing him in at the start of the inning (with a 4 run lead)... or maybe even a 3-run game on a day that Wheeler absolutely needed the rest. But, I guarantee you, if it was 5-4 entering the 8th inning there is NO WAY that Garner even thinks twice about bringing in Wheeler... it was a combination of the score entering the inning (5-1) and the Rockies lineup situations that led to this loss (Preston Wilson looking so bad against Springer yesterday.) Frankly having certain guys you do trust on a bullpen over the lesser-rans IS a mark of a decent team (in my book). All the good teams know which guys they can throw out there when they are winning, and the ones they can waste on games where they're losing (thus preserving the good arms to pitch as much as possible). Did giving Mike Jackson a chance to win the game over Dotel work in 2001? No... but Larry was probably using the same thinking you are (we must have all members of the bullpen able to get us thru this if we're going to win the world series). In the end... Russ Springer is not as good as his 1.93 ERA in June. He's been in the league over 13 years, the last year his ERA was below 5 for a full season was 1999, he's always been a fly-ball pitcher... and we freaking brought him out of retirement last year. He's a good guy to have because he's got a live arm and can eat up innings when you don't have to throw the big guns... but other than that, he's useless... and should not be counted on for anything else.
I agree. Maybe Springer has pitched well for a month, but Wheeler has done great all season. Having Wheeler warming up, but not bringing him in is inexcusable. If it were me, I would have had Wheeler in to start the 8th, and I also would have thought of bringing in Lidge with 2 outs in the 8th. This loss is on Garner!
I understand your overall point (making sure not to overwork certain members of the bullpen)... but would you honestly turn Russ Springer into a bonafied set-up man in what is essentially a "one" run game (with the tying run already on base)??? We've been doing it all month long and no one has b****ed. Springer consistently is used in the 8th and 9th innings, close games or not, as is Wheeler. I think it's ridiculous to just attack a decision when it doesn't work - never mind the fact that having the bullpen pitch lights out is what got us to be playing good in the first place. No pitcher is going to pitch perfectly. You have to trust more than two pitchers in close games, or your team is going to suck in the long run. We have three guys (plus Lidge) that we've been using in late innings based on matchups - Wheeler, Qualls, and Springer - and that's <I>been working great</I>.
In the end... Russ Springer is not as good as his 1.93 ERA in June. Of course not, but our history with Springer is: 2004: 2.6 ERA April: 2.9 ERA May: 17.1 ERA June: 1.9 ERA So outside of May, he's been as reliable as anyone on this staff, save Lidge and Wheeler. He's clearly the #3 guy on the staff right now... if your team doesn't trust that guy, the team has problems.
I have no problem with Springer as our number 3 pitcher out of the bullpen. His numbers lately have warranted that spot---but what about our #1 and #2 guys when the game is on the line?
Russ Springer doesnt have the stuff to be a #3 guy in the pen. Qualls isn't any better. At the end of the day this is a 2 man pen that needs another guy to be better than average. Over the course of 162 games you need more than Lidge and Wheeler. Great start by Clemens, once again.
