i simply mean they lost production...big time. they lost their two top RBI guys. Lee is a better defensive 1B than Bags..granted..but he's not a decidedly better hitter than Bags, even at this late stage of Bags' career. they'd take Bidge over Patterson, offensively. Bidge at nearly 40 had that guy beat in OBP, runs and power numbers from the leadoff spot. the game i went to in Chicago last season, Cubs fans were showering boos on Patterson. i will agree they have us beat offensively at C, SS, and 3B for sure. but the bottom line, again, is they lost their top two RBI guys from last season...and they still scored less runs than we did, last season.
They still have a better lineup and pitching rotation than we do right now...their lineup in more suited to handle those losses
It is? They lost their top run producers on a team that still scored less runs last year than we did. Why is their pitching rotation better? I would seriously dispute that. Particularly after losing Clement. More Hawkins at closer??
The Cubs offense is obviously better than the Astros. Are you forgetting that Houston lost its top 2 run producers as well? Show me a position where the Astros have a decided advantage - RF when Berkman comes back. The Cubs infield is so much better than Houstons that the Stros' slight advantage in the OF doesn't come close to making up the difference.
1. the astros didn't lose their top 2 run producers. berkman and kent were their top RBI guys. 2. 1B is a wash. We'll see with Lane...I think he could prove to be better. If Biggio is in center, his numbers at the plate were better than Patterson's last season. As you said...RF with Berkman. But the bottom line is the Cubs, with all they have now PLUS Sosa and Alou couldn't score as many runs as the Astros did last season. I don't see that improving for them without Sosa and Alou in the lineup.
Max....c'mon....Do you really think that Roy and Roger are a better 1-2 than Prior and Wood? Id trade our 2 for their 2 right now. Pettitte and Backe vs Maddux and Zambrano? I think we are slightly weaker...especially with Pettite coming off of surgery ad Backe having 50 IP to his credit...but i guess you can make a case that its a draw at best.
OK, if you don't want to consider Beltran as the club's top run-producer, so be it. Using your rationale, the Cubs didn't lose their top two run producers either since Aramis Ramirez had more RBI than Sosa (Lee may have also.) So we'll compare the teams before Beltran arrived. Before the All-Star Break last season, the Cubs scored 400 runs in 87 games, while the Astros scored 396 runs in 88 games. Personally, I think the loss of Beltran & Kent is much more damaging to the Astros than the loss of Sosa & Alou were for the Cubs.
no question....they still have Nomar, Lee, Ramirez, Patterson (say what u want but the guy hit almost 270 with 24 dingers and 30 plus sb), Barrett and added Burnitz
Abso-freaking-lutely. I can't believe you're even arguing that. Roy 20-10; 3.49 ERA; 3rd in Cy Young voting Roger 18-4; 2.98 ERA...muther falcon Cy Young winner Prior 6-4; 4.02 ERA Wood -- 8-9; 3.72ERA. Here's the real difference. The Cubs have considered moving this guy to the freaking bullpen, NJ. By any measure our top 2 are better than theirs. Long innings...ability to stay healthy...wins....ERA...you name it. I don't think that's even close. Prior and Wood get tons of run...but potential means you haven't done it yet. And if you can't stay healthy...hey...that's part of the game. I'd take pettitte over maddux at this point of his career every day of the week...though like you, i am concerned about his health coming back. but assuming he comes back healthy, i'll take pettite over maddux no problem. And Maddux was their BEST pitcher last year. Zambrano over Backe...agreed there. But on the whole...you drastically either overrate Wood/Prior at this point based on potential...or you drastically underrate a freaking 20 game winner and last year's Cy Young winner. Come on.
I think it hardly matters, because the Cards are a better team than either the Cubs or the Stros right now. They filled their one legitimate need by getting Mulder (if he's 100%). I do think the Cubs will struggle somewhat with that offense. I still think Nomar is going to produce a big season, and Aramis Ramirez is going to be very solid, but they've got holes.
i do agree with that. but they lost defense up the middle, and that was a huge strength for them. and we'll see if they stay healthy all season again.
I disagree with the Roger and Roy vs Wood and Prior argument....I think most GM's would make that trade in a heartbeat if they were getting Wood and Prior. Regardless, its not the Cubs we even have to worry about....the wild card will most likely come from another division anyway.
Not to mention a pretty decent catcher. Or that Mulder was absolutely atrocious during that latter part of the season last year. Say what you want about Beane and his "Moneyball" philosophy, but he tends to be right more times than he's wrong. Therefore, I'm not convinced that Mulder's going to be the difference maker. All the Astros need to do is stay competitive for a couple of months. Around late-May, early-June is when you start hearing names thrown about in potential trades. If we're within striking distance, we're gonna add a bat. Who's replacing Alou and Sosa in the Cubs' lineup? I think it's safe to say that there's a decent chance that Lane and Burke can make up a significant chunk (not all of course) of the production of Beltran and Kent...especially Lane. Putting Lamb in the OF, while not ideal for defensive purpose, will add another bat to the lineup and we won't lose a significant amount of games because of the defense. Anyone arguing that Oswalt/Clemens is worse that Prior/Wood are simply disillusioned after the off-season we had.
They've both been injury plagued. Wood has never lived up to the potential. Oswalt is a significantly better pitcher at this point of his career than Wood is. I dont' think that's even close. I don't know how you can argue with the numbers. If you're saying you'd trade a Cy Young winner for a guy who was 8-9 last season, you're nuts. If you're saying you'd trade a 20 game winner for a guy who's battled injuries, who still has a higher ERA and has never won that many games, you're nuts.
I'd take Roger and Roy for one season, but I'd take Kerry and Mark for the future. That's a no brainer. Prior is every bit as talented as O, if not moreso, and Wood is a stud as well. I'm a Beane fan, and I know he knows what he's doing in Oakland. But it's quite possible that the Mulder trade made sense for the A's even if Billy thought that Mulder would return to productivity this year. His moves were made with an eye to the future, and payroll flexibility. Similar to the above comparison, Mulder will likely produce more than the prospects St.L. gave up this season, but in the long run Oakland will benefit from an infusion of cheap young talent. Big contracts are an anathema to small markets.
Prior was injured last year....for most of the season.....and Wood wasnt healthy either. Are you saying Roy hasnt battled injuries? The year before, it was Roy who was hurt and Prior who was an ace...regardless, I'll agree to disagree. Again, the Cubs will not be the team we need to worry about anyway...but I do happen to think they will finish ahead of us.
Wood has never one more than 14 games. He's been in the league since 98. Prior won 18 two seasons back. O won 14 in 2001 in only 141 innings..only 20 starts when he was brought up. he won 19 the next season...and 20 last season. O is a decidedly more proven starter than Wood at this point of his career. Wood and Prior have both battled injury. If you're talking long term, sure you would take them over Clemens because you KNOW this is likely Clemens' last season. But we're not arguing long-term, are we? We're talking about this year with last year's Cy Young winner and a 20 game winner from last season vs. 2 guys who won a combined 14 games last season. get real. that's not even close.
You are judging them both based on a year where they were both injured....not really a true showing of Wood and Prior's talents.
