A Concise History of Black-White Relations In The USA

This is obviously a touchy subject, but the fact is that a very large number of people feel the same way that SWTsig feels towards blacks. That is undeniable. In SWTsig's case, he relayed personal experiences and observations with a great deal of candor, knowing that his post would likely be attacked. The easy way out is to simply say, "you're ignorant". That really doesn't move the debate along, however. That's lazy. I think he makes some valid points in that speech and appearance are two major contributors to perceptions of a group of people. I agree with that. So with that as a given there are two choices:
1) Change the speech and appearance of many blacks
2) Change societal norms and judgments of others

#1 seems more of a viable option than #2 in my opinion, simply because it is human nature to discriminate against people who glorify killers, dress like a gang member, and use very poor grammar. Would you hire someone who came into an interview with his hat turned sideways, pants hanging so low that his boxers were showing, and couldn't construct a grammatically correct sentence? I wouldn't. I don't care what race they are. What is unfortunate is that the black culture perpetuates these things by idolizing the wrong things and having the wrong role models.

 

On the one hand, I'll admit--even though I just said I'd been watching this thread, I haven't paid that close attention to his previous posts. On the other hand, the outright attacks on anyone even suggesting that some responsibility in this issue may also lie with African American culture has--in my mind--been the most glaring attribute to this thread. This discussion could be an opportunity to bring people in, yet there are people here who are hell bent on doing the opposite.

 

Because my 68 year old mother glorifies gangs. she wears a doo rag and has gold teeth.


seriously, no matter how intelligently you dressed that argument up, its still ignorant. and its no point in debating with you anyway because you have all black people judged. hence the term, prejudice.


its prejudiced thoughts dressed up in a cheap suit. I'm being lazy, he's the one whom already has everyone judged.

and to base your assumptions on a whole race based on the way some kids dress who idolize musicians, just like white teenagers used to wear their hair long and archie bunker thought they were homosexual hippies is even more ridiculous.

there is no nobility in being archie bunker.

 

My point (WRT your comments) was that SWTsig was speaking in terms of percentages--as opposed to sweaping generalizations. It was in the last sentence of my first paragraph. Perhaps you scanned over it.

 

Percentages

 

What? You just made my point for me with your own post. How can someone make a generalization about an entire race based on their own experience - in a place as limited as a shopping mall at that. That's the entire point here. Just because some he feels some discomfort due to something foreign to him it is justified? What crime here is being committed that some blacks choose to wear baggy jeans, wear chains, get corn rows, and speak in colloquialisms? His entire point was that their downfall is due to this "blackness." He himself earlier said that "the only thing keeping Black America down is Black America itself" and then later admitted that discrimination does take place. Huh?

Telling me to "get over it" as he so eloquently put it is not a legitimate point of discussion.

What? Why do you feel so threatened by all this? I'm not giving blacks a free pass. I just took issue with A) the ridiculous notion that you and some other raised that somehow because your ancestors did not own slaves, they did not benefit from slavery and insitutionalized racism and B) the claim that black America has ONLY herself to blame.

What I am saying is that the solution is much more complex while you and SWTSig are simplifying it down to an "us against them - they have only themselves to blame" argument. I said myself, black America needs to take steps to glorify education as a culture.

 

So you admit your statement below was idiotic?

the only thing keeping black america down is black america itself.

Your'e saying that if black America doesn't want to be discriminated against they need to dress better, speak better, and act more educated? Blame the victims... is that really your take? Do you blame women for what they wear and how they act when they're raped? How much of a slippery slope have you adopted due to your 2.5 months at the mall?

 

Nah, looking back, I completely agree with him. I mean, he worked at the mall. I'm just a silly liberal, angry about everything. Maybe if they didn't act so black, they would be like us. I really would accept them then - you know, if they didn't act so black.

I take back everything I said earlier. We have every right to be angry about that cartoon. How dare blacks try to rise back up after a 300 year late start. They have noone to blame but themselves. It doesn't matter that most poor black public schools aren't even qualified to teach 4th grade english - they should be able to overcome that through hard work just like I did. And how dare they be given affirmative action to allow the seeds of education to be planted. It's completely irrelevant that black language and family were completely destroyed through slavery and that anthropologically this takes generations to reverse. There is absolutely no racial discrimination today - black America has only itself to blame for its plight.

Thankyou for opening my eyes SWTSig. They really do need to get over it.

 

Oh yeah, giving up on issues like civil rights will allow the Dems to rise again. Everything is Bush's fault even if Libs don't mention it because, you guessed it, we're obsessing over him 24/7.

Your a politikal genious...

Geez, I never considered putting some thought into comments was considered PC nowadays. Oh wait, there I go being PC again. I just want to feel better and call people ignorant.

 

The thing about that point of view is why do blacks in particular have to change when they're in non-formal places such as shopping malls?

The Indians resisted government-induced assimilation and now they're among the poorest ethnicities in the Western world. The government broke up their communities and villages, forced penalties for following traditional heirarchies, while giving incentives for those who went to live in cities. The current tribal council system in many reservations is dominated by government interests. The Indian Nation lies beyond tribes who own casinos...

I agree with you to an extent about black mainstream media perpetuating the wrong things, but how serious of an issue is it really when you consider that this media trend occured 20 years ago when the overall failure of American blacks has been much much longer?

 

I would like to point out that the so-called thug look and glorification of gang culture isn't purely Black culture. Just consider how many white kids dress like that, talk like that and listen to gangsta rap. If it was limited to blacks I doubt people like 50 Cent or Snoop Dogg would be so successful.

 

The attacks on people haven't been on people who suggest that SOME responsibility lies with the Black community, the attacks have been on the people who have suggested that ALL the problems in the Black community are the fault of the Black community. As a Black American, I agree that their are many problems and isssues in our community that we should look to ourselves to fix. But I do get offended by ignorant statements and flat out dumb generalizations such as the ones that you and other posters have made all throughout this thread.

 

as opposed to what? someone else's experiences??? how convienent for you.

i'll retract my "only" as it was typed out of frustration more than anything else, and it obviously isn't a true statement. so how about you try and refute everything else.... and don't tell me i cant say my ancestors didn't benefit from "slavery and institutionalized racism," because they didn't. neither of my parents were born in this country, and in my dad's case, came from one of the most despised countries at the time (and now as well) - Iran.... at the height of the Iranian-American conflict. and did so inthe deep south, no less. and all his siblings. without barely knowing a lick of english. and they all became succesful. they were discriminated against all the time, yet they were able to overcome it. they didn't let that discrimination define them, as so many others seem to do.

i'll say it again: blacks are not the only race of people in this country to be widely discrimnated against. period. if they want to change that, it's gonna have to start with themselves, because expecting everyone else to is foolish.... just as T_J said. (wow)

bring on the "ignorant" comments.

 

Show me where I said no other race was discriminated against and show me where I didn't acknowledge that blacks need to help themselves.

Your whole point was that "black america has only itself to blame." I am glad you have backed off that stance.

 

A few points,

1) Hip hop culture has negatively perpetuated stereotypes. Blacks who embrace it look like thugs. Whites look like pathetic wannabes. Heck, I've seen Vietnamese/Cambodian kids who are 4 ft 9 wear pants five times their size and look ridiculous. The problem is that a larger portion of young blacks act and dress this way, as opposed to other ethnicities. It's superficial but this impacts the perception of other people who are in positions of power. In position to hire blacks, to promote blacks and to give a fair chance to blacks.

2) When my white collegues and I meet with "The MAN", we laugh it up when we use the model minority ploy to pit them against blacks and to make us feel better about racism. That may be true sometime. But most of the time, I am just impressed that penniless people can come here, face the language, culture, class, education and color barrier, and become successful.

3) Don't fight the machine. America is evolving toward a more equal society. But we will always need ditch diggers. Not everyone is going to get a even slice of pie. However, anyone can assimilate into the system and succeed. The ditch digger's son can become the boss one day. Work with it. It will become better.

 

well said.

 

How does that apply to blacks and why are they singled out?

Please elaborate.

 

It applies to anyone. I don't have the magic bullet, but the system is set up that if you work hard, the probability for a positive future increases. Secondary education will move you up the class chain. Nearly 50 percent of Asians hold a college degree or more, compared with 30 percent of whites, 17 percent of blacks and 11 percent of Hispanics. This is the main reason for the wage gap.

The new immigrants that come here have a strong family structure and are hard working. They will work 8 jobs if they have to in order to provide for their families. They might not reap the rewards, but their children will benefit. The Mexican janitor, the cook at the restaurant, the nail salon lady, are all working for the future of their kids. Their children are not priviledged and attend the same schools as other poor minorities. They Invest in their kid's education. The results are evident that the next generation will be better than the last. I believe blacks have the opportunity to do this as well. Maintain a two parent household. Buy LeapFrog and not baby Air Jordans. Admire Stephen Hawking and not Cedric the Entertainer. Listen to ColdPlay and not half a dollar. Whites are not activley holding back blacks from advancing. Work with system. Get a degree. Kiss your bosses ass. It works. But some will get the short end of the stick. It's not utopia. If you become a ditch digger, be the best damn ditch digger. You kids will respect that and become better people.

 

Nice. Should be required reading for everyone that hates their life and blames the Man and society.

The issue is culture and values. Our culture now teaches kids to blame others for life, rather than to focus on what you can do. The system isn't fair, and sometimes downright sucks. And it's right and good to complain loudly when the systems fails. But you can't stop there.

Do your best, sacrifice for your family, freaking buy leapfrog instead of air jordans (damn that's poetry), and things will get better.

 

THis is ridiculous because many non-Blacks listen to 50 Cent, buy Air Jordans and admire Cedric the Entertainer. This is why comments like this are looked upon as ignorant. I know plenty of Asians, whites and blacks who do all of the above and are successful professionals.