[538] Advanced Metrics: Robinson > Olajuwon[?!?]

All these stats are flawed cuz they dont have a weight for SOS or strength of schedule. Morey has a measurement called high leverage moments that I guess is sorta like that.

Everybody knows all shots arent the same when Harden takes and makes that 3 vs KD, Klay and Draymond Green thats obv much harder and impressive than Giannis shooting over Trae Young but those are weighed the same. If my job was in analytics figuring out how to weigh shot difficulty is the first thing I do.

All I know is Allstar Jrue Holiday looked like an allstar in the East but immediately became a scrub the moment he got traded West.

 

The dude's name is TimmyD21 I wonder why he will say Spurs have a bright future? Do you have any idea?

 

What I know is we saw 'average' for years after Dream left, and it was pretty pathetic. Comical even. Any system saying Dream was average is just very flawed. An average center mostly has bo impact. Did Dream have no impact? ???

 

What prospects do the Rockets have coming up? Siakim hasn't made an AllStar team but no one but a blind Rockets fan would rather have Westbrook right now over Siakim. Harden is great but Westbrook has been getting bounced out of the first round year after year since KD stopped Carrying him. Did you see how bad Westbrook looked when being guarded by DJ?

 

I’d much rather have Pascal Siakam as James Harden’s running mate because he’s a much better fit than another ball-dominant guard. However, until Siakam makes it through an entire NBA season as the primary option on a playoff-caliber team, he’s not better than Russell Westbrook today. Would I rather have Siakam for the next decade? Of course. However, Dejounte Murray and Derrick White aren’t anywhere near Siakam’s class, yet. Comparing either to Siakam is a joke. As for young talent, Clint Capela is every bit as good as either Murray or White. But, other than him, the Rockets are devoid of good, young players.

Also, who cares how bad Russell Westbrook looked in a preseason matchup with Dejounte Murray? First, it’s preseason. Second, he had offseason knee surgery. He’s not going full bore in meaningless games. Westbrook is still head and shoulders better than Murray today.

The Rockets’ future outlook is bright until James Harden declines or retires because they have one of the top five players in the world on their roster. The Spurs don’t have anyone of that caliber on their roster. Until that changes, both teams’ future outlook will not change.

 

I wonder if Morey would agree.

Didn't Morey (& many on clutchfans) use one(?) advanced metric (regular season) to argue that Harden was a better isolation scorer than Michael Jordan?

 

There’s no metric for purity
@Os Trigonum

 

It wasn't an advanced metric. It was points per possession. If you give the ball to Harden X times and tell him to iso and score, he produces more points than if you give Jordan that same opportunity. It's a statistical fact. You can analyze it however you want and draw whatever conclusions you want from it, but the data isn't wrong.

 

Some players drop in quality and efficiency when volume and usage go up. Harden maintains or a low drop off, this is the kind of thing that separates him from the regular stars.

It doesn't mean he has to be marathon man all the time, just that he can when his number is called.

 

Hakeem fo sho.

Is the Admiral even the best historically in his own franchise?

 

Not sure if RAPTOR is flawed or not but Dream was raw as hell when he entered the league. The Dream we remember was a champion. I imagine his early career numbers on offense were not as impressive and weighed his total numbers down. This is why these advanced metrics are only a tool. Not the be all end all of debates. It's also why looking at just metrics and then claiming Harden better than Jordan has people looking at Durrell like he's bonkers.

 

expected points per isolation like expected points for any player shooting a mid range vs a three is advance metrics. The term advance metrics simply refer to nontraditional stats or statistics which were not historically or commonly used in the industry/league.

The metric Morey used wasn't wrong just like the numbers 538 uses are not incorrect, but the question is, are either set of numbers enough to make either their arguments.

 

I'm confused...are we having a fact based discussion now?

 

Raptor predicted the Rockets as the best NBA team this year, so...

 

stats schmats

 

does raptor account for killer instinct?

 

Yes, only a tool...but if they come back and say that Dream was an average center (which apparently they did)...that's just stooopid. And pretty much the only conclusion you could draw from that is that the tool is also stooopid.

Even raw, he was WAAAYYYYY above average. How can you be the only player alive capable of a quintuple double, and yet be average at the same time??? Stoopid. Average players don't even make All Star teams, much less be considered one of the best players of all time. We SAW average here, when he left....and it was comical.

The Harden vs Jordan has more merit too it. (ie, it's not saying Jordan was an average player, at least). I would say offensively, it's probably a very fair comparison, and that Harden might indeed come out a bit ahead. And it wasn't even offensively...it was a particular dimension of offensive (isolation only). Defensively? Ahhh, no. THAT'S what made Jordan great. (not as great as Wilt, mind you, but great. ;-))

 

Dream didn't even really struggle early in his career, he just needed to become more polished in terms of passing and mature in defensive aggressiveness

 

538: the Rockets are the best team in the nba according to our new RAPTOR stat