This is much, much more than that, and will probably go down as one of the greatest superhero movies of all time, imo.
This has little to nothing to do with DC/Marvel. Joaquin wouldn't sign on If it did. Nor would Bob. Getting out of the fan boy, copy-pasted comic book movies is what makes this project so intriguing. I know I am in the minority, but I am tired of watching Iron Man over and over and over.
As a DC lifer, I agree with this sentiment. This movie is a standalone movie and doesn't have anything to do with any other DC movie continuity. It seems very much to be an experimental film and that seems to be why Joaquin Phoenix was willing to sign up. He wouldn't have done a typical superhero movie. The thing that throws me off a bit is that it's a passion project for such a mainstream director. Everything I've read about this film makes it sound like the polar opposite of The Hangover. The descriptions all seem more in line with Todd Haynes (I'm Not There - amazing experimental Dylan movie) than Todd Phillips, but an artist can have different aesthetics for different projects and that's what I'm counting on here. In many ways, there should never be a Joker "origin movie" because The Joker should never really have an origin. That's fundamental to his character. In other ways, that's a great reason to make an experimental film exploring his origins. I've been let down repeatedly by DC movies though they used to be the best of the best--Christopher Reeve Superman and Nolan's Batman trilogy can't be touched by any other superhero films, IMO, though Logan and Black Panther are possible exceptions--and I've heard this film likened to Logan in the way it departs the superhero movie genre. As a mega-DC Comics fan I'm super geeked about Aquaman, Shazam, and Wonder Woman 1984 which are the next three releases from DC but I'm even more excited by this Joker movie. Leto is still the Joker in the mainstream DC films universe but the only actor I'd like to remove from DC movies more is Jesse Eisenberg. He made a Riddler-esque fop of Lex Luthor and Leto's Joker was ludicrous. It seems that DC is most likely to re-cast the roles of Batman and Superman but the roles they most badly need to re-cast are Lex Luthor and The Joker. This movie doesn't do that and isn't trying to do that; it's a standalone film. Still, if anyone can follow Heath Ledger's untouchably brilliant take on The Joker (and nobody ever can) it would be Joaquin Phoenix. He's a brilliant actor and he wouldn't have taken the project if it weren't a great concept. I'm more excited by this film than Aquaman, Shazam, and WW84 combined.
Hoping this does well so DC can save us from the tired MCU. I don’t have high hopes though. If DC can’t right this ship I’m just going to hope for the eventual deconstruction of the superhero movie genre entirely.
Very understandable. DC (or more to the point, WB) totally screwed the pooch. If you can't have an unqualified success with the first live-action film to ever include both Superman and Batman (AND Wonder Woman), you can't do anything right. It was almost impossible to make a poorly received film about these characters but Zack Snyder found a way to do it not once or twice but three times. That damage is irreversible. Just thank goodness for Patty Jenkins. And James Wan and David Sandberg it seems, since Aquaman and Shazam really do look wonderful. The good news on the DC front is that on the comic book side, the medium from whence all these properties originate and where their stories are always best told, they are absolutely killing it lately. I don't know if DC Comics have ever been more exciting than they are lately. And Marvel is having a hard time keeping up on that side. DC's comic books have been positively thrilling lately. From Geoff Johns/Gary Frank's Doomsday Clock (an actual Watchmen sequel that integrates Watchmen w/DCU - seems like it could never work and instead it's been mind-blowing) to Tom King/Mitch Gerads Mister Miracle (a 12 issue maxi series that's winning every award for its exploration of trauma and depression and suicidal ideation and love/marriage) to Tom King's utterly fresh take on Batman (the main series which has been blessed by like 12 amazing artists) to Scott Snyder/James Tynion/Jim Cheung/Jorge Jimenez/Mikel Janin's Justice League (the indisputable best run on the title since Grant Morrison's legendary run in the mid-late 90s) to some amazing Hanna-Barbera stuff (King/Weeks Batman and Elmer Fudd best single issue of the last year, Mark Russell's insightful social commentary told through series about The Flintstones and, even better, Snagglepuss as a Tennessee Williams-like gay playwright in the 50s during the HUAC hearings)... And that's hardly the tip of the iceberg. When it comes to the comics I don't think DC has ever been better with the possible exception of those 2-3 years that birthed Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns, Killing Joke, Alan Moore's Swamp Thing and so much other Vertigo greatness... 1986-88 or so were maybe the best couple years any comics publisher has ever had for all the classic comics that came from DC/Vertigo then. These last two years have been the only two years that could hold a candle to what DC/Vertigo achieved back then. And I didn't even get into Gerard Way's amazing Young Animal imprint for DC (including a fantastic run on Doom Patrol) or the new Black Label imprint that just launched with Batman: Damned and has so many exciting, upcoming titles. And the new DCU streaming service is candy for fans like me. I'm hardly watching anything else as I binge on reruns and the best of DC animated films and TV, live-action film and TV, daily news show, and tons of comic books one can read/watch on one's gigantic TV making a panel of a comic as large as your screen. And even on the film side where they've been so thoroughly thrashed by Marvel, things are looking super promising. The next four films coming from DC all look incredible to me.
So what's the idea with this movie? Are they going to do the Killing Joke version of Joker's backstory?
You're not alone. That's the question everyone is asking about the movie. This article from Screen Rant does a good job of describing what the idea is, though it remains mysterious in many ways... I'll give the link and the headline and the first couple paragraphs. Click to read more. It's a great (and free) article. https://screenrant.com/joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix-reveal-jared-leto/ Joaquin Phoenix's Joker Reveal Is Incredible (& So Much Better Than Leto's) We've got our first look at Joaquin Phoenix in his Joker makeup - and it looks fantastic. A 1980s-set origin movie for the Clown Prince of Crime inspired by the crime movies of Martin Scorsese (who was at one point attached as executive producer), Todd Phillips' Elseworld's DC film has raised a lot of eyebrows since it was first rumored in Summer 2017. "Just what is it?" has been the main question on many people's lips as Joaquin Phoenix jumped on board and casting for a Trump-like Thomas Wayne circulated. We're no closer to knowing that, but we are beginning to get a feel for the Joker of the story. The first look at Joaquin Phoenix as Arthur was revealed last weekend by the director, showing an entirely unassuming, slightly gaunt man, while set photos showed a man with a sharp dislike of clowns. The reference to "Arthur" is a reference to Joker's real name in the movie. His full name according to the movie is Arthur Fleck, or "A. Fleck" which I think is a pretty cool name for him if he has to have one. Typically he doesn't. The Batman movie gave him the name of Jack Napier as an homage to the actor Alan Napier who played Alfred on the 1966 Batman TV series and that name was used in the animated series too. In most comics and in most canon/continuity his real name is unknown and that's the way it's always been with some notable exceptions... In some comics he's been given the name Joe Kerr or Oberon Sexton or just "Jack." In this year's highly lauded miniseries Batman: White Knight by Sean Murphy he has the Jack Napier name for the first time in comics. But White Knight is an "Elseworlds" story like the Joker movie is. In other words, neither is in continuity/non-canon. Casual readers wouldn't know this butThe Killing Joke was originally an "Elseworlds" as well--meaning not in continuity and what DC used to ironically call "an imaginary story" which was how they marked a story as non-canon. As this article notes, Alan Moore called The Killing Joke "An imaginary story..." and then added, "But then aren't they all?" This article goes deep into the fact that The Killing Joke wasn't continuity, then it was, and now it's sort of not again. The Killing Joke was meant to be what Marvel used to call a "What If?" comic, named for their excellent "What If" series. This movie is also not meant to be canon. It's what DC now calls an "Elseworlds" story which is just their latest way of calling it a "What If," or "an imaginary story." https://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/0...art-of-dc-continuity-and-now-it-no-longer-is/
And don't get me started on The Killing Joke movie which added an hour on the front end to add a sex story (can't call it a love story) between Batman and Batgirl (gross: Batgirl is traditionally Robin's crush as Robin is hers -- for fans that know all that the animated movie was akin to a father getting down with his son's girlfriend) before getting to the comic book adaptation. So to me, as to most Killing Joke fans, Batman fans, Joker/Robin/Batgirl fans, etc, the best way to watch the animated Killing Joke movie is to start it about halfway through to miss the poorly received and vaguely upsetting first half which was an add-on for the express purpose of making the story longer. I'm with the vast majority of Bat-fans in considering the Killing Joke screenplay/"Batman-Batgirl getting it on addition" a rare miss from an otherwise reliably very good-to-great comic writer, Brian Azzarello, whose "Joker" special with artist Lee Bermejo is a classic and whose recent run on Wonder Woman was really something too.
I don't like superhero movies but I'm of the opinion that Joaquin Phoenix is the best A-list actor performing right now, so I'm pretty interested to see how this goes.
Yeah, I think he's an excellent choice, but his look as Joker is weak. I suspect after reading this thread that many other people feel the same way so maybe we'll get a change.
I think you guys are selling Joaquin Phoenix short. Sure the trailer looks stupid, but when has Joaquin Phoenix ever put in a bad performance. The guy is pretty underrated as an actor. He's up there with the likes of DDL (yeah, I said it). I would expect something pretty insane from him.
Deja Vu. Batman Jones getting pumped about an upcoming DC movie. The data says this story doesn't usually end well. We'll see.
I might be in the minority here, but I loved it from start to finish. The whole Batgirl/Batman sex felt akin to how the Doctor's companions (in Doctor Who) all kind of fall in love with him. The Doctor, being a truly good character never would or could act on it. Hell, it took a clone of his to finally bang a companion. Batman, in a lot of respects reminds me of a darker, more selfish and jaded Doctor. But I also see how its creepy, but then again, Batman is kind of creepy.