Pat bev at 5mil and his synergy w Harden makes him much more valuable to us than other teams. So, barring a curry/paul/westbrook/wall/lillard/irving trade, its definitely not happening.
His overall production is replaceable, however, it wouldn't be easy. People have perhaps fallen asleep about the endangered species which is people who can defend PG's and not be an offensive liability. Those of us who have been watching basketball for a long time remember a time when a player like Bev played the 2ND type of guard defense - the type which was always meant to be off the bench, in spurts, to disrupt a player rather than lock them down. That type of defense is now the primary form of defense against this guard heavy league. You are simply NOT going to stay in front of a Kyrie Irving all the time, no matter who the heck you are. You are going to get screened, you are going to chase people a lot, you are going to get uncomfortably close and it is as much psychological as it is physical. Bev is the master at this. You are going to see teams trying to develop a Bev because PG duties are spreading to other positions, and PG's are dealing with the need to guard complicated offensive sets. I do not accept that he brings solid defense. He is an elite defender of PG's. Not just solid anymore. He brought elite defense this season, and if he were playing with a decent defensive team, it would have become more apparent than it did. Having said that, he is of course still replaceable. Will cost us 2-3 times more money. Will be practically impossible to find a better fit with Harden. But it's certainly possible. I advise against it. And frankly, I don't believe he has requested a trade. I believe he's been told they are trying to trade him for a pick, and he understands it's a business, and he is trolling everyone with the social media stuff. I think deep down he's saddened but he is on good terms with Morey and of course he's the type of person who hates showing weakness. This is not a happy moment for us. I would be furious if we dumped him and didn't get George or Paul. I want 2-3 more Beverley's, not one less.
I think his defense is overrated. I mean it's definitely very very good. He may make an all defensive team this year... maybe... he made the 2nd team once, in 2014. Chris Paul on the other hand, is first team all defense i think like the last 5 years. but cp3 is probably overrated in that department now as well. His peskiness is nice, but overrated at times. I think a guy like Klay Thompson is now the prototypical guard defender. Big enough to guard 1,2,3. Great lateral quickness. Doesn't go for fakes a ton. Willing to chase all over the court. Great team defense. Etc. It's not PBev's fault he isn't taller... but he isn't I'm not in love with the idea of replacing PBev with CP3, given the cost difference. More so because I think CP3 and Harden are simply NOT a good fit. But if you have to move CP3 to get Paul George (even knowing its potentially a 1 year rental) or Blake Griffin... look you got to do it. Or even Paul Millsap or Kyle Lowry. Those are just better players... regardless of contract. Same with CP3. The team needs better players, badly.
Disagree with the assessment of course. The way you describe Beverley is what he was in month 2 of his Rockets career or in the middle part of 2015-2016. What Beverley produced in 2016-2017 is not just pesky defense and good shooting. He has grown out of the habit of mindlessly harassing players - he is there for help, he holds position when it is the right move, and he shows aggression when that's the right move and he is capable of sustaining that pressure for a longer duration. He is a deadly threat from 3pt range if open and he has improved as a floor general from being piss poor to being damn near average. He ascended into a higher tier, and that's why there are 8 teams interested in him. No matter how good the contract/value of player, you rarely have 8 teams interested. He is at least as good a defender as Thompson, and this strongly links to my point about teammates. Klay Thompson is playing on a far superior defensive team. Neither of them are in the tier of Draymond or Gobert or Kawhi. As the cherry on top of a brilliant season, Beverley clamped down the league MVP whose entire production is based on offense. To say he's just a pesky defender whose defensive fundamentals are overrated is not reasonable. You are not taking a hatchet to Westbrook's offensive efficiency with pesky defense and Capela/Anderson guarding the rim, no way no how. Thompson, of course, is a much better scorer than Beverley which is why his value is significantly higher. Correction: 12 teams interested in Beverley. I have literally not seen that being said about any role player in history, regardless of them having a great contract.
you're absolutely correct on the fact that he had a peak year and improved from being an overrated pesk of a defender to just better defense this year. I just wouldn't call it elite. because... there's no way he's a better defender than a Klay Thompson because fundamentally he just isn't nearly as versatile. just factually. I value Klay as a defender more than I value Bev as a defender because when they're forced to switch, as happens all the time, Klay is more versatile. One on one, versus another PG type player, in an ISO... if you want to take Bev over Klay, that's fine... but those situations aren't what happens the most in nba games these days Yes, Klay is on a great defensive team, but he's a BIG part of the reason why. As for the playoffs, again, Bev is a great defender. i just don't think elite elite level. He did great in the playoffs, as did the Rockets defensive gameplan generally in round 1... that being make other players beat you because the rest of the OKC team offense sucked. That said, look, Russ was great through 3 quarters every game, and then sucked in the 4th quarters... definitely PBev played into that, but perhaps Russ' tendency to suck in 4th quarters of playoff games throughout his career played into that. I mean, Jonathan Simmons is indeed a solid defender, but I'm not about to anoint him all defense for locking down Harden for 5.5 quarters And... as I noted, PBev wouldn't be my first trade... but you have to trade value to get value.
Not factual at all. Klay Thompson can't guard a 6'1 guy any more than Bev can guard a 6'7 guy. In the NBA, you get switched on with much more variety than your example implies. If Bev ends up on the Jazz, let's see how this narrative plays out. You are always going to appear to be a better defender when your teammates are good at switching and helping. This is why advanced metrics give the appearance that Tyson Chandler became a Plumlee last season. Bev is at least All-NBA second team defense. That means there is one guy in the world who is better at playing defense at the PG position. I'd love to hear your list of the top 5 defensive guys under 6'3 in the league. George Hill? Dellavedova? Avery Bradley? Bev is top 3, and if you are top 3 in the NBA at something, you are elite. I also can't believe you are minimizing what he did to Westbrook. Westbrook shot 7-for-27 with five turnovers for 27 points against Bev in the series. Beverley guarded Westbrook for 38 half-court plays and held him to 0.71 points per play. This is SIGNIFICANTLY worse than Westbrook's other series (which were posted here a couple of days ago) during Westbrook's best season of his career. 7 for 27. And he wouldn't have dreamed of averaging the numbers he did if Beverley had even an Adams or something guarding the rim.
I think a few factors effect bev's trade value in relation to draft picks. first we have to understand that as much of an x-factor as he can be, he's just a role player / borderline starter that everyone knows we have to trade to create cap space. Looking at the draft, the bulls pick is near lottery. I don't think any team would give up a lotto pick, even in a weak draft, for a borderline starter. sure, bev will be better than whoever they can pick, but he's already halfway done with his career and teams in the lotto are more interested in gambling on the hopes they land a kawhi. you can always sign someone like bev, even the teams that never get big free agents can land a player like bev. he has no value in the lottery, especially when the rockets don't have a lot of levergage. This is why i think the bulls pick at 16 is a little high. the jazz at 24 is more likely. second, lets not assume that the draft pick in return is for us. If we can get a pick for bev and a pick for lou, one of those picks might help dump ryno's contract or both might be used to acquire a player via trade. draft picks are like cash. every team wants picks, not every team wants bev and lou, etc...
Hilario / Harrell Griffin / scrub Ariza/ Decker Harden/ Gordon Paul/ scrub Spacing would be a problem with this group.. Don't see how this years free agents mesh with out roster?? Per reports we are trading Bev, Lou, Anderson, Capela would be a sweetener..
only an idiot would think that i was talking about Beverley and not Harden...... you need your eyes checked
