Warning: Another sad ME thread

It would be interesting to see this "Secret" file.

If the guy is completely innocent (and this is an assumption) then it is time to start putting the screws to Israel and start pulling back our monetary support.

If, however, the guys file shows him to be associated with terrorists, then all bets are off.

DD

 

It is a sad story indeed. There are so many wrongs committed by both sides in that conflict. Undoing them all is like untangling a string that's been tied in one illogical knot after another, and now it's one intertwined mess that needs to be untied.

Some days I just can't bring myself to read about the conflict.

 

Here's the bottom line everybody...IF this story is true then Israel is committing gross human rights violations...the same type we have complained that the Vietnamese did to our soldiers. If they are doing these things, how on earth can we support the Israelis? Where is the moral high ground so many people on this BBS want to seek?

 

I agree, IF this is true, we can't support Israel while it continues. It must stop (if in fact things like this are taking place), or we must stop our support of Israel.

 

Define Associated.
What 'level' of Association are we talking here?

If he went to High School with Osama .. . is that enough?

Rocket River

 

1. I wonder if this story was near the Jenin massacre story??

2. Refman -- come on...that treatment isn't much different that how we're treating Al Qaeda suspects in Cuba...and i know you don't have problems with that...we're getting half the story here...this guy may be playing the "i'm an innocent goatherder" card while at the same time being a part of something more sinister.

 

I'm not really sure what we have to gain by supporting Israel in the first place. Seems to me like the rest of the world hates their guts. Our relations with the oil-producing Arab states would certainly improve if we just ignored Israel. What exactly do we gain by being Israels ally?

 

how about it's the only country we've ever been able to trust in that entire region...it's the only one where people don't say things like, "those americans had it coming to them." or, "this whole 9/11 thing was really Israeli operatives getting the US in on the fight!" it's the only country in the region that didn't have at least something to do with slamming planes into the twin towers.

 

MM--
We've supported them long before Sep 11, 2001. And YES they did play a role in terrorists slamming planes into the WTC. Part of the reason why the terrorists are so angry with the US in the first place is because of our support for Israel, in light of the many atrocities that the Israelis have committed against Palestinians. That is partially what drove al queda to such lengths.

And the reason they are trustworthy is because we give them money and weapons.

I repeat myself: What is in it for the United States in return for supporting Israel?

 

1. Come on...they played a role in 9/11 because they're our friends??? That's weak and clearly not what I'm getting at. I am comparing them with other nations that either supported these jackasses financially or otherwise.

2. OBL could care less about Palestinians...he never said a word about them until it became politically expedient for him to do so...his concern was always with our presence in Saudi Arabia on his holy ground after the Gulf War.

3. If the Palestinians are so loved and revered throughout the Mid East, how come they can't get citizenship status in those other countries??? Because they're looked upon as second-class citizens. You don't give your life for those you perceive to be second-class citizens. That's not why planes slammed into the WTC.

4. I repeat myself again...they're the only ally we have in that entire region...the only ones there we know we can trust. And we have asked them time and time again to check their aggression...and they've done so (see the Gulf War when Saddam shot scuds to Israel and they did NOT retaliate)...we hold Israel to a higher standard than we're willing to play by, and they've been dealing with terrorism for a lot longer than we have. If we were bombed as regularly as they are...if our civilians were picked out like they are...if our little kids' schoolbuses were targetted...our reaction would be much swifter and harsher than anything you've ever seen from Israel.

 

OBL cares about Muslims. Palestinians are Muslims. This is one reason (out of many) why Islamic fundamentalist groups do not like the United States. Case Closed.

What is in it for the United States in return for supporting Israel? Not *why* do we support Israel, but what do we get in return?

 

That's why I said IF. IF being the operative word. You can't possibly REALLY think that is how the prisoners in Cuba are being treated. If it were, then we'd be hauled in to answer for multiple Geneva Convention violations.

 

the muslim world doesn't seem to care much for palestinians at all...they turn them away, never offering them refuge. the case is not closed...good try, though. OBL never ever never cited us support for israel as a reason for his hatred until it was politically expedient for him to do so...it was always about being on the holy land.

what do we get in return?? we get our only true ally in the region..a region rich with the resource that makes our economy keep ticking...

Refman -- uh...that's exactly the kind of thing that we hear happening to Muslims...we hear they're held without trial...without charges against them for long extended periods of time by american authorities...

 

Trust? Why don't we ask the sailors that served on the USS Liberty how much we can trust Isreal. Who was Jonathan J. Pollard selling that top secret info to? Thats right our good old trustworthy friend Israel. Who went behind our backs and sold a radar system to China that will make it easier for them to operate around Tiawan, even after Clinton begged them not to? Thats right, our good old partners in trust Israel. Trust Israel, OK.

 

as compared to saudi??? how about iran??? everything's relative, Htown...are they UK?? of course not...but in that region of the world, they're as close to a true ally as we know.

 

Max--really--I know you can't possibly believe that the Israelis are peaceloving and always act in a manner which is just and right. The charges here are imminently believable and should be investigated. IF (there's that word again) they are true we should call the Israelis on it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that they are worse than those you listed. What I am saying is that they are not this "thick and thin" ally that you are painting them to be and they do not deserve our UNWAVERING support. When they are wrong, we should tell them. If they don't want to listen, we should make them listen.

 

Why should we treat alliances any different than people treat their friends? If you have a friend that is screwing up...you call him on it...that's part of being a friend. The same should apply here.