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[Vecsey: NYP] Isiah's follies

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by fya, Feb 25, 2005.

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  1. fya

    fya Member

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    http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/22181.htm


    February 25, 2005 -- ON a day it might've been easier for the NBA to relocate franchises rather than move the multitude of traded players, Isiah Thomas almost did exactly the opposite of what he's been saying over the last couple weeks he wouldn't do.
    There's nothing more damning than spouting a conflicting philosophy.

    Once again the Knicks have exchanged two bad players with undesirable contracts - plus their one and only pro center - for a pair of fringe starters with longer and higher salaries.

    In the opaque opinion of the team's patronizing president, anybody who can't see the above deals are perfectly reasonable deserves to be demeaned.

    In his murky mind Thomas believes he's justified swapping Nazr Mohammed ($5.5M) and Jamison Brewer to the Spurs for Malik Rose ($6M, $6.55M, $7.1M, $7.64M) as well as Moochie Norris ($4.2M) and Vin Baker ($3.85M) to the Rockets for Maurice Taylor ($9.1M and $9.7M).

    Why? Because the Knicks got two first-round picks pre-owned by Phoenix and San Antonio as part of the package.

    According to Thomas' shadowy genius, their mutual irrelevancy is worth more than competing with a halfway competent center. His lame logic is biting and sweeping:



    "Who did I have playing center for me now?" Thomas submarined.

    "Come on, Mohammed was that bad?" I replied.

    "No, not that bad," Thomas qualified. "But everyone in the Eastern Conference is playing without a pure center except the Heat [Shaq], the Cavaliers [Zydrunas Ilgauskas] and now the Bulls [Eddy Curry]."

    Like, whoa! I could've sworn I heard Thomas repeatedly defend the Keith Van Horn-Tim Thomas transaction back when by claiming his sole motive for making it was to get Mohammed in the three-way deal.

    In Thomas' jumbled judgment he thinks compiling immaterial draft picks (two No. 1s this June and two the year after, he gleefully notes) is vital to rebuilding.

    "Look how many quality players were drafted low in the first round and early in the second," he stresses. "We drafted [traded for, actually] Jamaal Tinsley at No. 27 at Indiana and my other choice was Gilbert Arenas [taken No. 31 by the Warriors].

    Fine, we all know the league's elite talent scouts make their fair share of mistakes every draft. Josh Howard went No. 29, Tony Parker went No. 28, while Auburn's Marquis Daniels went undrafted, for crying out tears despite winning player of the year in the Southeastern Conference.

    Rashard Lewis (No. 32), Manu Ginobili (No. 57) and Arenas are ideal examples of players who were criminally overlooked. But just because Thomas uncovered Trevor Ariza at No. 43 last June it doesn't mean he's assured of a superior being (on the scale of the above three reigning All-Stars) slipping through the cracks, nor has he proved he can identify it if it's there for the plucking.

    In this salary-cap restrictive age, I don't care how much a team is on the books for luxury tax; hindsight and some sideline experience has taught me it's unnecessary to tear a team apart in order to rebuild it a championship contender/conqueror.

    Rebuilding with high draft picks obviously works as long as management doesn't panic. See Bulls; Jerry Krause wasn't nearly as whacked out as all of us thought, and John Paxson picked up where he left off ... earning him co-Paxson of the year award with brother Jim of the Cavaliers.

    Still, from where I'm second-guessing, shrewd trades and clever free agent forays succeed quicker. See Lakers (Shaq and Kobe), Pistons (Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, Rip Hamilton and Chauncey Billups) and Pacers (Jermaine O'Neal, Ron Artest).

    All three rebuilt in that manner (draft picks were added to provide fresh legs and enthusiasm) with only a rare failure crashing the playoff party. The Wizards are the latest to renovate their roster and recapture respectability using that approach versus relying almost exclusively on the draft.

    Thomas, on the other hand, did precisely what? Instead of figuring out how to obtain Chris Webber, he engineered the acquisition of Taylor, who may be a worse rebounder per inch than Tim Thomas, if that's possible, and Rose, a favorite of mine, but conspicuously undersized at the four and five, his two deployable positions.

    In Webber, at least the 76ers got marquee value and triple-threat numbers (that somewhat validate his preposterous $62M over the next three seasons, suspect health and engorged ego) to parlay alongside Allen Iverson and a very strong youth corps.


    What did Isiah import to New York? A replication of Kurt Thomas and Mike Sweetney. To serve what purpose? I guess he felt the Knicks needed duplication at forward to complement the backcourt cloning of Stephon Marbury and Jamal Crawford, who unerringly do the same things on offense and don't do the same things on defense.

    At the expense of creating a bigger cavity in the middle!!!
     
    #1 fya, Feb 25, 2005
  2. Faos

    Faos Member

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    Can you imagine if Houston had media like this when our GM's weren't making good moves?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    #2 Faos, Feb 25, 2005
  3. emjohn

    emjohn Member

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    I won't hate on CD like most of this board. They made the right call with Yao when the national media was clamoring about Jay "Can't Miss" Williams and Mike Dunleavey, the Drexler trade, the Barkley trade, salvaging the Pippen fiasco as best as they could, the Francis (postdraft) trade, the McGrady trade, all the stuff this year, etc.

    There have been a more than a few sorry moments and a lot of terrible drafts (which I still suspect were heavily influenced by Rudy's obsession with perimiter shooting forwards), but they've made some of the better big moves in the past decade.

    The real question is why have the Knicks been so patient with guys like Layden and now Thomas? Are they that gullible when these guys tell them they have a plan?

    Evan
     
    #3 emjohn, Feb 25, 2005
  4. vwiggin

    vwiggin Member

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    I love the annual "Fii-re Lay-den" chants at the MSG during every NBA draft. :)
     
    #4 vwiggin, Feb 25, 2005
  5. updawg

    updawg Member

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    You really have to wonder what the Knicks are thinking, do they know something the rest of the league doesn't? Extremely stupid moves by them
     
    #5 updawg, Feb 25, 2005
  6. Random.

    Random. Member

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    I really think Isiah Thomas is just not that bright. As a coach, as an owner of that pro-basketball league that went bankrupt, and now as the GM of the Knicks.

    Just because someone was a quality basketball player doesn't make them know anything about being a general manager.

    Has anyone defended any of his moves? The Marbury one was exciting and splashy, but he gave up a ton to get it done, and it hasn't paid any dividends.
     
    #6 Random., Feb 25, 2005
  7. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    FAOS, LOL on those cover images! Man the NY media can be brutal! ;)
     
    #7 Deuce, Feb 25, 2005
  8. codell

    codell Member

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    With the exception of his finals appearance with Indiana, is there anything Thomas hasn't left in worse shape when he left?

    Toronto Raptors
    CBA
    NY Knicks

    Why do people keep hiring him to run their operations?
     
    #8 codell, Feb 25, 2005
  9. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Which is what makes the Rashard "I'm the prototype perimeter shooting SF for the next decade sitting right under your nose and practically falling into your lap" Lewis screw-up (both the failure to draft and failure to trade) SO MUCH MORE FRUSTRATING! :mad:
     
    #9 SamFisher, Feb 25, 2005
  10. emjohn

    emjohn Member

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    Can't even give him credit it for that - Bird was still coaching when they made the 2000 Finals.

    Evan
     
    #10 emjohn, Feb 25, 2005
  11. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    He couldn't coach the Pacers pass the first round, that is why Bird brought in Rick C.
     
    #11 pirc1, Feb 25, 2005
  12. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Member

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    Because he's a charmer with a million-watt smile. I never trust such individuals; certainly not if I already knew of a bad track record, as Isiah clearly has.

    Isiah: always the too-short shooting guard who lived in Michael's shadow. The man has always had a chip on his shoulder and behind that toothpaste-commercial smile and soft voice is, let's face it, one heck of a mean streak.

    Like a lot of presidents and CEOs, he proves that you must make disastrous mistakes and you will keep getting better jobs.

    Isiah for President in 2008?

    The moves Isiah Thomas has made, including yesterday's, make no freaking sense. God Bless you, Isiah! (Pst: would you take back Weatherspoon for Jamal Crawford? Whaddaya mean, "no, I'm not that stupid"? Of course you are!)
     
    #12 ROXTXIA, Feb 25, 2005
  13. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Member

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    yep, he sucked at coaching indiana also. he's sucked at everything except playing basketball. he doesn't strike me as being very bright from listening to him talk, and yet he seems quite arrogant and smug and also, despite demonstrable evidence to the contrary, seems to think he can tackle any challenge in the non-basketball world. coach, gm, run a league, whatever it is, he wants to try. a guy who wants to do everything, thinks he can do everything, has enough name recognition to get a chance to do everything, and yet sucks at everything is very dangerous. many have paid the price for hiring isiah.
     
    #13 francis 4 prez, Feb 25, 2005
  14. CBrownFanClub

    CBrownFanClub Member

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    The worst was when he tried to take credit for the Pacers playing well last year. "It's all going according to the five-year-plan I put into place..." I would like to have a serious discussion of the things Isaiah Thomas is bad at, rank ordering them. If I may start:

    1. Owning things (CBA)
    2. (tie) Being A General Manager
    2. (tie) Being a coach
    4. Broadcasting

    Things Isaiah is / was good at:
    1. Being a fine guard for the Pistons
    2. Placing his name in company in which it does not belong (Jordan, Erving, Magic, Bird, etc.)
     
    #14 CBrownFanClub, Feb 25, 2005
  15. Fegwu

    Fegwu Member

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    What really worried the most as an average basketball fan was to hear Zeke declared on TNT to Craig Sager that he did not discuss Chris Webber with the Sacramento Kings.

    Are you kidding me? You did not even place a call Isiah? That is either a white lie or poor "general management".

    I know it may not be wise in the big picture for them to land Webber but what does it really cost to just place the call to the Kings. You owe it to your patrons and fans to continue to seek every avenue to make the franchise better and winning fast.

    All the best to him but time is indeed running out fast for him and his legacy.
     
    #15 Fegwu, Feb 25, 2005
  16. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Member

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    oh thanks for bringing up broadcasting CBFC. i had completely forgotten to bash him for that. that was the great thing about him coaching, there was no chance i would have to listen to him during a game.

    i may have to bump broadcasting above coaching and put GMing at the top, though it is tough to compete with bankrupting an entire organization that had been around for a long time within a few years.
     
    #16 francis 4 prez, Feb 25, 2005
  17. DeAleck

    DeAleck Member

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    That indeed really really worried me. Here is why: If Isaiah keeps looking stupider and stupider, he will eventually get fired. Then, whom do we rip off to unload crappy contracts in the future?

    That really really worries me! :( :( :(
     
    #17 DeAleck, Feb 25, 2005
  18. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    its hard to look back and compare lewis to the 3 we picked ahead of him, but remember that at the time we were championship contenders and didnt have time to wait a couple years for lewis to contribute. we needed guys that were going to help now (whether or not that panned out is obvious, but hindsight is 20/20)

    also, at the time the idea of high schoolers comming in was very rare. i remember at the time actually being glad that we DIDNT draft him b/c he was too young to be an impact for us at the time. i guess thats why im not a gm!
     
    #18 jo mama, Feb 25, 2005
  19. Fegwu

    Fegwu Member

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    You are on a roll :D
     
    #19 Fegwu, Feb 25, 2005
  20. Faos

    Faos Member

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    I never look at things that way. If the Rockets would have gotten Rashard then would we have TMac and Yao now? You throw off the whole course of history that way. Maybe the Rockets would have been better the past few years but still not championship contenders. Who knows?

    But it does suck that we didn't draft him when we had THREE FRIGGIN CHANCES!
     
    #20 Faos, Feb 25, 2005
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