A friend of mine graduated from law school in May, and he's had a heck of a time finding work. I think he went to SMU (maybe not, though). He might be a moron, though. (I don't think he is, but one never knows. He was a moron when we were five years-old.) I, too, have thought about going to law school. I've wanted to do something where I felt I could help people, and I really enjoy the law, and have done very well in the law classes I have taken in my business program (not to say that they were intense law classes or anything). But I feel like I'm too old now to actually go out and try to attend law school for three years. ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
I'm a Sophomore Government major at UT right now. I see no future with this major without a JD. Hopefully I can attend UT Law School in the near future, but I better start looking at other law schools as well. Good to know that there are fellow future/current lawyers on the BBS. ------------------
MadMax, I was thinking about pursuing a Masters in Geology, but I think that since enough of my friends are scientists that I'll be at least mildly aware of what the latest research shows (plus my wife's a research biologist). You nailed the quote. That movie gets me rolling on the floor everytime I see it. ------------------ "Everyone I know has a big but... come on Simone, let's talk about your but."
Achebe, Saw this post earlier today but was actually too busy at work (go figure!) to give you a reply until now. Is it worth it? Man, talk about starting with the unanswerable question. Bottom line is it depends on what you want out of life. What's going to make you happy. I want to try cases - its what interests me. I couldn't imagine joining all my college friends who graduated and went into tech support/webpage design/other computer work. It wasn't me. Law school is a sacrifice of three years of your life. First year is brutal, the bar exam is not fun, and in between you're kept pretty busy (and deep in student loans). And like a lawyer-friend told me, there are easier ways to make a buck. I've got a friend who was thinking about law school (wasn't really sure about what he wanted to do) and I convinced him to go into something else. But if its something that you're passionate about (trying not to sound too sappy here) I think its really a way to make a difference. And its the sort of job that can keep you interested, day-after-day. Those of you in the market... can environmental lawyers feed themselves? Good question. I was gung-ho about environmental law my first year+ of law school, until I took a class in the subject area and realized it wasn't for me. The area of law is interesting, but unfortunately not litigation-oriented (its 95% administrative work). I've heard that the TNRCC is always looking for environmental lawyers, but the pay's not going to be great doing government work. An alternative is the "big firm" route, as most have some sort of small environmental law department. Also there are a few botique firms, including at least 1 I know of in Austin that specialize in environmental law. I'm still looking for something permanent myself, so I might not be the one to talk to about jobs. As an aside, with your software development background and a law degree, you could probably make some serious $$ if you wanted to go into the intellectual property / business route. Lot of that here in town. What's the typical path? They have both a j.d.(?) as well as a masters here. Why go one route or the other? JD is juris doctorate. Your standard law degree. The masters you're referring to is (I'm assuming) the LLM (master of laws or something like that). The former is the degree to get, the latter is what international law students and (I believe) academics get. You could be referring to one of the joint degree programs, too -- I know they've got one with the business school, and probably a few others as well. But an extra year of law school - who needs that punishment? Do you guys have any pointers? Not a lot else. Sit down and make your decision. I don't know you, but I am very impressed by your "do something noble" comment. The profession needs more people with those aspirations. Oh, and don't study too hard for the LSAT! The bar exam is a memorization test but there's nothing you can really do for the LSAT. It's similar to the SAT in that it tests your problem solving skills rather than any sort of knowledge you could pick up. Do a few practice tests so that you know what to expect, but otherwise don't sweat it too hard. Madmax - so are you guys hiring? Souds like a great little firm you've got yourselves there. ------------------
Growing up, and then grabbing a philosophy and geology degree in college, I was totally afraid of financial failure. As many of us have learned, software development can offset those concerns. I'm thinking though of trying to do something 'noble'. I don't want to end up as a 40 year old bald, fat, software developer (and if Bush wins, the inevitable market downturn will postpone my retirement). There are tons of lawyers on this board. What have you guys experiences been going down that route? Is it something slimey? Is it akin to getting a real estate license? Going through school, is everyone there just for $$$, or is it usually a neat learning environment? I'm in UT right now, so I just went up to the UT college of Law to get a look around... a feel for things. Though everyone was younger (i turned 28 on halloween), things didn't seem too bad. Plus, the college had the discipline/clinic or whatever (I don't know you guys terminology) that I'm interested in: environmental law. Questions: Is it worth it? Those of you in the market... can environmental lawyers feed themselves? What's the typical path? They have both a j.d.(?) as well as a masters here. Why go one route or the other? Do you guys have any pointers? ------------------ "Everyone I know has a big but... come on Simone, let's talk about your but." [This message has been edited by Achebe (edited November 02, 2000).]
Achebe -- Contrary to what you might think, I'm more like Ed the bowling alley attorney than LA Law. I went to law school and knew fairly early that I wanted nothing to do with the big firms. My grades were in the middle of the pack so they probably wanted nothing to do with me too!! Worked out well. I was persuaded by some buddies to open up a practice with them. Our doors have been open about 4 months. I love it. I feel like I'm really helping my clients. My favorite thing to do is help someone start a business...helping someone make their dreams come true. I really enjoy that. Most of all, I get to choose when I work...I have no problem putting in lots of hours...I just like to be the one to say when those hours get put in without having to impress anyone. I have an 8 month old son and a wife...my time with them is infinitely more valuable than any set of hours I've ever billed. My exposure to the slimy side is minimal. We choose what cases we want to take and if we have any philosophical problems with them, we don't take them. Ultimately I'll sacrifice a little in my wallet to be able to look at myself in the mirror each morning. We have turned away more than a few potential divorce clients that we just didn't feel comfortable with. If you work for a firm, you may not have those choices. Law school is right up your alley, I think..though I really don't know you, so perhaps I'm missing the mark. Very academic. Unfortunately, they don't truly prepare you for the actual practice of law. At least that was my experience. But I enjoyed it...though I was very glad to get out!!! Environmental lawyers do very well, I assume. Feeding yourself won't be a problem. Dealing with environmental issues hasn't been much of a concern for my clients. Is it worth it?? Depends on what you're looking for. I enjoy it...but then again, my experience is very different from other attorneys given my choice to go out on my own. I have many friends at some of the other firms in town who have told me that they wish they would have done something else...problem is, the money is too good to walk away from. You become used to a certain standard of living I suppose. By the way...the market has been on the way down for about 6 months now. Has nothing to do with Bush!!! Nice try, though! Of course I can't leave without posting some sort of political jab! ------------------
Thanks MadMax, for your input (I deserved the political jab ). By the way, does a Masters help out in any extra way? I guess that question may be pertinent to a given school, but I'm just curious to see how many people do the additional work. I guess it's time for me to start preparing for the LSAT. Luckily my wife is busy with her GRE work for the next few months (and I'm in Atlanta most of the time anyway). Thanks Again! ------------------ "Everyone I know has a big but... come on Simone, let's talk about your but."
I don't envy you...the whole process of taking the LSAT..sitting through 3 years of law school..and preparing for and sitting for the bar are certainly less than fun. But it's a challenge..and that's enjoyable in a way I suppose. I graduate degree can be helpful. Depends on the area you're interested in. I had a bachelor's in business..thought about getting an MBA to go with my JD, especially as I seek to serve small business clients. Maybe I'll do it some day but I doubt it. With environmental law, I'm really not certain what you'd want to see about getting a masters in. I don't know that it's necessary...I guess it could help you get into the law school of your choice. My thinking is that no client of mine has ever asked where I got my undergrad degree..for that matter, only a few have asked me where I graduated from law school. For the most part they want to know if I'm licensed to practice law and can I get the job done for them before they plunk down money for a retainer. But if you're interested in working for one of the big firms, it's possible they might be more willing to hire you if you had another degree...maybe..I'm really not sure. By the way..your little quote at the bottom of your messages "everyone I know has a big but"...isn't that from Pee Wee Herman's Big Adventure??? Classic!!!! ------------------
Sam -- I wish we were hiring!!! We're doing well, but we haven't set the world on fire quite yet. It just takes time to build a practice..as I'm sure you know! A lot of networking and getting your name out there. You said you're involved with litigation...what sorts of cases are you trying?? ------------------
We do insurance and DTPA cases, mostly. The firm does some class action work but it hasn't come across my desk yet. What kind of law do you practice? ------------------
Our mission statement is "serving families and their family-owned businesses." My ideal client is a guy who wants to start his own business..we incorporate him and take a cradle-to-the-grave approach with his business, developing a personal relationship along the way. That usually leads to helping him out with some intermediate estate planning and any probate issues. We do some family law, but not much. We are also doing some DTPA consumer cases as well. I'll be licensed in federal court this month, so I'm learning bankruptcy. We're open to all sorts of cases..I mean ultimately we're kind of a general practice because if someone comes to us with something we like, we have the liberty to take it as long as we feel qualified to handle it. ------------------
The games section is kicking my ***. Any advice on how I should manage my time? I know I don't have to answer every single question, but I get frustrated by spending too much time on one game. I might miss easy questions on other games. My worst fear would be to have two games sections and not know the experimental one. I should slap myself for being so optimistic in 2000.
Smokey -- Yeah, games suck!!! Are you taking any of the preparatory classes for LSAT??? They do a good job of getting you to think about how to answer games. Basically, you have to give yourself lots of paper to draw diagrams. And then pray real hard that you don't get the kind of game that particularly kicks your butt!! I did on the real LSAT... but it turned out OK. Actually I got the EXACT same score on the real LSAT that I got on my first practice test!!
Man, you should have seen my score sheet. I missed 1 question on the first part. Two questions on the second. And (I think) 1 question on the 3rd. I was tracking for a 174. Then guess what happened? Yep, that's right. The ****ing logic games were the 4th section. I got the first 6 right. After that, I nailed precisely 3 of 18. Got 9/25 right on the entire section. My final score was a 164 (92%), and good enough to get me into Texas... but not precisely what I'd wanted, either. Was in the 99th percentile in reading comprehension and logical reasoning... but like, in the 35% on the logic games. (Can you tell I'm bitter? ) The rest of the test will take care of itself. It's a slightly harder version of the SAT. But the logic games are evil, evil, evil. My advice (I just took it this October): 1. I believe there are 6 different "types" of games. For me at least, I could do 3 of them hands down. 1, I was about iffy on, and two types were hell for me. Unfortunately, I got 3 games of the two I absolutely couldn't do on the exam, and missed every single question on them (didn't even have the good luck to correctly guess one). Focus on the ones you don't get. And see if you can figure out some tricks to narrow it down... but you have to be willing to "abandon" them. Like, I didn't do that on my test... so when I finally got to the last game... one that I could do, I didn't have enough time to do it properly. As it turned out, I really hurt myself, since I missed all the "bad game" questions anyway. 2. Buy an LSATbook. For me at least, that helped me out. While I completely choked on the actual logic game section... when I took my first practice test, I was getting ab out 12/25 right. When I finished, I was usually getting 15-17/25. That might not seem like a huge improvement, but every question counts. Just remember I'm telling you that with a huge asterisk. 3. I never took a course, and did fine. But of course, maybe I would have improved my LG section. I had a few friends take courses, and most of them cautiously said they were good experiences. The sense that I seemed to get, was that if you could commit yourself to working on your own... that was just about as good. But if you're not the type that can... take the course. G'luck .
i can not begin to tell you how much of my business has changed since i posted this....it's really funny looking back on this!!
Dude, I loved the games section!! (except the experimental one which scared the crap out of me because I answered like half of them in the entire allotted time. I took it before taking the real games section, so I was hoping like hell there were more games coming!) iI don't know what advice to give, though. If I remember correctly, sometimes you can work backwards -- just look at the answers and some of them won't even fit the clues. But I never took a class or anything, so don't take this advice very seriously. I don't know if it's good or bad. I hated the Arguments section ... Every question I missed was an argument q, and I still maintain the ones I missed, I was right and the answers were wrong.
The LSAT was easy. Quit whining. The bar exam is a million times worse. By the way, I had 2 of the games sections too. Maybe they do that most years, since it seems like a section they could "experiment" with alot. Learn from haven's lesson: don't spend too much time on one question. Keep a very strict watch on the amount of time spent on each question. If it looks particularly time-consuming, or you are getting bogged down, take your best guess. Mark it down, and come back if you have time. Because I guarantee you, they will give you a tough question halfway through the section and then come back with an easy question right at the end, and you'll kick yourself if you don't have the remaining time you need to properly answer it. The only real practice I'd do (for the logic games section) it learning how to diagram each game. There's a limited variety in that section, and it's a big help to know immediately how to set up a table to find the right answer.
Become a professional juror! That was great fun. You learn about the law first hand, you get to hear an interesting story, and then you are given the opportunity to make a difference. Great experience. I can't wait until I get called again. My case was just like that movie six degrees of seperation except it involved a car jacking and a point break chase.
Just me being confused here. Why is Achebe listed as the thread starter when his post is the 3rd in the thread?
My guess is that it's because this thread is real old, and some things have messed up since then, such as the smilies not showing up as well. To add something to this thread, my sister is finishing her second year at UT law as we speak.
