AMERICA

I am always surprised at our willingness to throw out the whole concept of freedom of expression when it is something that really irks us. Good post.

 

The man that said that at Marcos' is probably a man who lost a father, a brother, a friend, or a son in either WWII, Korea, or Viet Nam-- maybe more than one loved one gave up his/her life in the service of our country. Most of us cannot even comprehend that kind of loss.

If I were in his shoes, I think it would injure me mightily to see these kind of whiny protests given the sacrifice that I knew that was offered and the permanent loss that I inherited because of it.

Yeah, his comment was a bit out of line but I cannot help but empathize with the gut-wrenching loss that almost certainly haunts him.

It seems more important to honor the sacrifices made by American military men and women than to honor the right of free speech on some street corner holding a lousy home-made sign.

The die is cast; these kinds of protests are useless gestures that cause a thousand times more hurt and alienation than the miniscule impact they have on political decisions.

 

No amount of protesting will stop the US gov't and their strikes against our vile enemies. The enemy has killed thousands of OUR countrymen and women.

HELLO!?!?!?!?!?!?

THEY'VE MURDERED THOUSANDS OF YOUR FELLOW AMERICANS!!!!

So what GOOD is it to protest right now. WHAT WILL IT ACCOMPLISH!?!?!? Will Bush stop the war on terrorism because these bleeding hearts refuse to stand behind their country when she needs them the most? No. The decision has been made. We are at WAR. WAR. WAR. Are people that numb to reality to realize that WAR means everyone in the country has to sacrifice for the good of their NATION. Our way of life, our liberties, our FREEDOM is at stake here. Do you want to lose that? This is not a war over turf, or political gains. This is protecting our life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

Shut your yaps and support your nation.

U N I T E D States of AMERICA!!!

I'm all for freedom of speech. But this is a state of war. Spend your energy passing out flyers on how to look for anthrax and what to do if you think you have it. Educate people in your community on vaccinations. Be positive.

Help those that are HELPING YOU!!

 

I think the KKK marching is one of the most dispicable and ridiculous spectacles in America but they have a right to express themselves. War protests are essential to protecting the rights of those who do not support military action. It is the existence of dissenting viewpoints that allows us to keep balance between the furthest extremes of society.

 

Jeff,

Under normal circumstances, I would agree with you wholeheartedly. However, we are in a state of war. We don't even know who we are fighting. Are we fighting terrorists from
al-Queda? This war is slowly moving to our homeland. Are we fighting the McVeigh fan club out of Montana?

These are different times. Mundane logic is currently not applicable.

 

With all due respect, there are many who believe that there is nothing positive about war and who are morally opposed to it. They have a right to disagree with our government and our policies. John Quincy Adams believed slavery was immoral. There were thousands of people who told him to "shut his yap" and support a national policy he found reprehensible. Difference of opinion is the nature of humanity and the tolerence of it is the basis of democracy.

 

DREAMer: I don't think we disagree-- different emphasis. If you re-read what I wrote, I think what I said was not criticial of the right to protest but I was critical of the <B>choice</B> to protest.

 

I agree to the right people have to disagree with our government and their decisions. You also brought up a good point in case about JQA. However, I don't see many, if any, politcians protesting the war efforts. I'm not arguing that citizens of the United States should blindly follow what is set as the national precedent. What I'm saying that our actions in the Afghanistan, are required to protect us and our future generations. Whether you're opposed to war or not, yo have to realize this is necessary to ensure our way of life. This is not about what is right and wrong. That has already been settled for us. It's now a matter os survival.

For the record, I'm opposed to war. But like I said, these are different times, and I see no alternative. I love my country. I love my freedom.

 

<B>So what GOOD is it to protest right now. </B>

What's the BAD in these people protesting? As you said, it's not going to change anyone's mind, so why do you care that these people are marching around with signs? As long as it's not violent, of course (which is illegal anyway).

 

In the context of 9-11-01, and ONLY in the context of 9-11-01:

Do I really have explain why it's BAD to oppose the actions of our leaders. Who by the way, are trying to protect our rights as a free nation?

Simply put, we need to stand together as ONE NATION.

Indivisible.

Rather than spending time and energy on a negative, why not use it on something positive? Do these protestors have a better alternative to military action? If so, let's hear it. Should we try and "talk it out?" Maybe we should But before we attempt to talk to Osama bin Laden, we should build a impenetrable electro-magnetic shield over the USA, just in case out "talks and hugging" don't do squat.

But hey, it's an alternative to war, right?

 

For the record, I'm opposed to war. But like I said, these are different times, and I see no alternative.

If that is true, then you are not really opposed to war. Perhaps you are just not "war first."

In regards to social protest in times of war, peace, and promiscuity: it is irrelevant. It is a right "allowed" in our country. It is always a good thing. If there was more social activity, there would be more sense of involvement and there would be more than 25% of the population voting. The power is truthfully filtered throughout the machine. Hands-off representative democracy can always become more participatory...protests such as those going on now are steps towards that.

Unlike you, coma, these people are against war and do see another way. Whether it is feasable can only be determined through listening to them. Even if they are schizophrenics in the street -- they also are exercising their right to social protest.

The immediate reaction to stop dissent in times of conflict ony works to further kill any sense of civic responsibility this country has -- it only paves the way to opening the door to future governmental transgressions against personal liberty.

In response to the man in the restaurant, it is awfully blind to immediately come to the conclusion that he lost someone. Perhaps he is simply a "love it or leave it" kind of guy. To immediately come to the former would be equalled in naïveté by assuming that the war protestors lost family to an invading army, or their brother was one of the men who took control of the planes, etc. One doesn't know, why pretend or attribute?

 

<B>In the context of 9-11-01, and ONLY in the context of 9-11-01:

Do I really have explain why it's BAD to oppose the actions of our leaders. Who by the way, are trying to protect our rights as a free nation? </B>

Yes, you do. You need to explain to me why free speech is a bad thing. You need to explain to me why its not OK to vocally disagree with someone else. You need to explain to me why people always seem to think "I believe in free speech, except if I think its bad" is a viable or acceptable philosophy.

If you're going to ask someone to give up their freedoms of opinion and speech, you better have a damned good reason to do so. And "to be patrotic" isn't it. The ability and willingness to disagree is what makes our country effective, in good times and bad.

 

rimbaud,

You had some excellent points, and they were eloquently stated.

I've always been opposed to war. However, the incidents on 9/11/01 have changed my mind. I would still like to think I'm opposed to war, but only time and cirumstance will tell.

Speaking in context of the 9/11/01 incidents, we have no choice but to put an end to this looming threat. If we don't, it WILL happen again. I'm not saying that our war on terrorism will protect us from any such incidents, but it's a step in the right direction. We've been forced to take action. If some Nazi gang from the next block came into your house, killed a family member, and set fire to your bedroom, what would you do? Obviously, you'd rather not fight. But how else are you to prevent them from going back into your house and causing more mayhem?

Sure, I see the need for the preservation of personal liberty by acting in the "now." But don't these people understand the situation we are in right now? We've never faced this kind of threat before. Don't they understand that if we stand united, we can defeat these forces with a power never before seen. Protesting is just part of what seperates us from our fellow citizens. There's hatred, jealousy, ignorance, etc..

For once, I'd just like to see America stand together as one. The potential is endless.

 

I'm not asking anyone to give up their freedoms of opinion and speech. I would NEVER dare to do anything remotely close to that. I never said nor implied that free speech is a 'bad thing.' Pretty much your entire first paragraph was an incorrect analysis of my point of view.

Why isn't "to be patriotic" good enough? Why isn't giving your nation and government full support when they need it most good enough? Free speech is part of what we are fighting for right now. It's a vicious, never-ending cycle to argue when one should be quiet and when one should exercise his freedom of speech. Why are these people who are exercising their free speech protesting our men and women fighting for that very same right? You want free speech? So do I. Let the military preserve it for you. Give them your support.

I still haven't answered your question. Why is it bad?
Believe it or not, the masses are gullible. Yes, these are the same people who buy the pet rock and Beanie babies. These are the same people who return a 16:9 formatted DVD to the store claiming there's something wrong with it because it has bars. Same people who believe some of the rhetoric in newspaper and on television. This is how some of these politicians get elected. They feed propaganda to the masses, and these people buy into it. It's ridiculous, and unfathomable, but it happens!
So you're out there with your sign, screaming against the attacks on Afghanistan, eventually, you're going to sway people towards your idea. Then, it's a domino effect. Then before you know it, half of our nation will be opposed to the war. A nation divided.

Our nation needs our support. I don't understand how anyone who can think for themselves, and obviously the masses cannot, see how we can go about without military action. That's why it's bad. Because it will take support away from our government when they need it the most.

 

<b>What I'm saying that our actions in the Afghanistan, are required to protect us and our future generations. Whether you're opposed to war or not, yo have to realize this is necessary to ensure our way of life. This is not about what is right and wrong. That has already been settled for us. It's now a matter os survival. </b>

That is an opinion, not a fact. It is based on subjective reasoning and not on a concrete knowlege of the future. You cannot make a decision about what will or won't happen because you, like the rest of us, cannot see the future and know the consequences of action or inaction.

I do not agree that this is necessary to ensure our way of life, but, honestly, no one knows. We cannot know what will occour as a result of our actions until we have made them. For all we know, we could be wiped out by an asteroid tomorrow.

I understand how you feel but you don't know enough to make a blanket statement like that. None of us do.

 

I think there are some people in america who just want to save money.

 

Although clairvoyance escapes me, it doesn't hinder me from making decisions. When making a decision based on what 'might' happen, you weigh all the possible results against all the possible actions. You then decide what results you want, and that will lead you to the actions you must take. I went to college, hoping to get a good job when I graduated. I couldn't tell the future back then either, I might've gotten hit by an asteroid while going to campus. But, to get the best possible chance of getting a good job, I went to college. If everyone knew what happened in the future, there would be no future. The best possible chance of the US preventing al-Queda, terrorists, etc., from commiting horrible acts against our nation IS to use military power. How many more Americans are we willing to sacrifice while we are holding their hands trying to change their minds about Americans? These people know nothing else but hatred for Americans and redemption in their deaths enroute to serving their God. History has shown that these are not people to be reasoned with. It's unfortunate, but, it is what it is.

Osama bin Laden called us out. It is a mission we did not ask for, but we will fulfill. These terrorists want to disrupt our way of living. What other choices do we have?

Enough American red has been shed.