Carr averaged 4.8 yards rushing on 59 attempts for 282 yards. He had 3 rushing TD's. I think this idea that he can't scramble is overblown a bit.
exactly...after the draft the analysts all indicated he was a statue back in the pocket who couldn't move...i didn't get that at all watching this past season. he's not michael vick...but he can move as well or better than aikman ever could.
I'll agree with that generally. But all I was talking about was over-all improvement in those areas. By the way, Aikman wasn't as mobile as Young, but Aikman was strong enough to withstand punishment...and still get the ball off. My least favorite. Dan Marino. He was a pocket passer, and was as mobile as a DUMP TRUCK (Same with Moon, but not as bad).
Also, remember that ability to scramble and pass, compared to getting tackled (or fend off a tackler) and pass are two different things. Different muscle groups.
I'm glad you pointed that out, because I would contend that it is a natural talent to be able to stand up while getting bumped by a drooling 300lb defensive tackle. If it can be taught, it won't be through stregnth training.
Well as far as your "natural" goes...also called "star" player... The way like to look at it is this... Go out and get you a "star" or "natural," like Carr, or A. Johnson. And then train them rigorously. That's what the Bulls had with Jordan. Pure natural talent. But then they (he) honed his skills, fine tuned his strength and speed. He basically turn himself into a "freak of nature." And when I say, "freak of nature" I mean it in the nicest way. Heh...
what??? in his first year?? i mean, that's really all you can compare. you can't be fair and compare aikman in the super bowl years to carr in his rookie season. compare them both as rookies...aikman got his ass handed to him and so did carr. they both showed improvement through the year. i think carr compares quite well with aikman at this stage of his career. except my wife says david carr is more attractive than troy aikman, so carr wins! in addition, 19-10.
??? Huh? I was talking to pgabriel regarding those mobility of those two players. No Carr. One of my other post I DID compare them equally (Carr and the other QBs) in their rookie seasons. And that was my point. That the the players DO benefit from strength and conditioning. All you have to do is look at their play/size/mobility/speed/quickness from their rookie seasons to their prime season. Not sure where you got the idea that I was comparing Carr to his rookie season to the other playes in their prime seasons.
Have 4 season tickets in 339. Have 4 season tickets in 339. Stop by and see me some time. Absolutely HATE the cowgals, no need to search for a reason, I am simply some one who does not put on their blinders b/c its my team. I will tell the truth. I do when I talk Horns sports and I will do the same with the Texans, Astros and Rockets. I would take Harrington over Carr, both guys showed the ability to win on the highest level of college against top talent, not second tier football. Furthermore, there are intangibles that guys like Elway, Montana, Young, Farve, Marino, Vick and many others have. There is poise, there are leadership qualities that Palmer already has and Carr does not. Look at Major and Chris, one had all the skill in the world, the other had the intangibles, we all know how that story ended. These intangibles cannot be taught, they do not come with age, they are things you have or you don't. Carr does not. Huge difference between "scramble" and "pocket presence." He can "scramble" on occasion, but he does not feel the pocket and roll away buying more time. He did not do that against lesser talent in the WAC, I find it hard to believe there will be some miracle that suddenly gives him this ability on the highest level. Just not gonna happen. You are making something up or have bad information. As much of a critic as I am I would be the first to state there were qualified analysts saying such things but there weren't. The consensus was that he took too many sacks, but not b/c he was a statue, but b/c he cannot avoid the sack due to holding the ball too long.
David Carr was rookie last season who took every snap, behind a patch-work offensive line. Why are you comparing David Carr to established veterans who've played the game and established themselves? Are you Ron Jaworski just trolling on this board? This is ridiculous just like last years' draft when Jaws started comparing Carr's delivery and dropback ability to Aikman's. What about Carr jumping up almost everytime he was sacked? Doesn't that resemble Favre a little bit? What about Carr watching scouting tapes, and learning as much as possible from veterans on the team and trying to earn their respect, instead of coming in and saying,"This is my team", he earned respect. Oh, thats right, that would be giving the guy credit, seems like you would prefer to describe you in a dimunitive manner. Explain how Carr hasn't shown the intangibles? Because from what I've seen and heard he has shown them. Why is Harrington a better QB? Why is Carson Palmer a better QB? Just because they played in the PAC-10, and Carr played in C-USA? (?) So by that measure players from smaller D-1 schools don't possess the same talent as powerhouse D-1 schools? So by your logic the greatest receiver of all-time (Jerry Rice) who played a Mississippi Valley State (a small school) doesn't compare to Peter Warrick who played at perennial powerhouse FSU. See how ridiculos that comparison is, its just as bad as your comparisons of Carr to every big-name QB in the NFL. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, thats the beauty of a message board, especially this BBS. But if you are going to dog a player with statements that you've made, come with something a little bit stronger. I apologize if I offended you with any of my comments above, but I love my hometown football team.
It's gonna take 3 to 4 years to get a half decent offensive line, but once that happens, David Carr and this team will be a perennial contender EVERY YEAR.
I would have taken Harrington also because I thought he had that intangible "it" to be a leader. But after this past season, I believe Carr is just as much as a leader. I still think Harrington is a slightly better passer.
Issue #1, I have a problem with the way management went about assembling this team. Why take a QB and risk him when you do not have an established line? Why did we need to take a QB the first year if he was not a can't miss talent? 3 of the city's 20 or so most beloved sports figures were offensive linemen (Matthews, Munchack, & Steinkuhler) one of which is likey in the top 3 or so (Matthews), so the statement of looking for an identity is a load of crap, they needed to draft the best player, and that was NOT Carr. I stated he is not to the level of another rookie as well as a guy who has not taken an NFL snap. Time will bear this out. What about avoiding the sack? What about throwing it away and it being 3rd and 4 as opposed to 3rd & 10 or more? So does Harrington, and problably 62 other QB's in the league does as they should. Hey, Steve Francis spent time asking Oscar Roberston what to do to be a better player as well We have something in common, I love my team to the point I shelled out serious money (in my book) for 4 PSLs as well as the cost of Club Level seating each season until the day I sell the PSL. Harrington is a guy who lead his team to a BCS bowl 2 years in a row. He is a guy who has shown poise and leadership. Palmer is a guy who lead his team to a BCS bowl, was a 4 year starter at a major program. He is a guy who has shown poise and leadership. Carr was in the WAC, but that is not the issue. I feel there is something to be said for either proving it on highest level, or if not (like in the case of others) it is important that you DOMINATE the lower levels and for more than a year. Carr did niether. With all due respect, what is rediculous is the sarcasm or craziness of that statement. If a guy has absolutely superior skills such as a Rice in college. You are talking about a guy who had had almost 4,700 yards and set 18 NCAA Div II records, let's be sensible. In hindsight there were 14 idiots in your mind on draft day 1985 as there is only one pick that came near being as good and it still was not in Bruce Smith. Hell, the Oilers past up on him to take noe other than "hellllooooooo - - LAWRRRRRRRNNNNCE MARRRRRSHALLLL" himslef. He was the 3rd receiver picked that day as well. The point is the draft is an inexact science so you really have to do your homework on these guys. Did the Texans? I am sure they did, but the problem is Carr has had sack issues as well as trouble with his throwing motion and his habit of holding the ball too long since he was at Fresno, and those were the exact things I saw last year. MANY MANY times I sat there and asked, "why was he still holding the ball. As a QB, there should be a clock in your head that tells you if you have not gotten rid of the ball yet, you better have something else in mind. Carr did not always have a lot of time, but there were more times than I wish to count which he was at fault for not getting rid of the ball. Balls that I have seen Harrington get rid of as well as Palmer. 1) I am, not here to dog him, I am dogging the Texans decisions. 2) What you are referring to as "dog" - ing of Carr are simply observations. Not even an opinion, these are things that were discussed on talk shows, spoken about by the commentators on the road games. Hell, it was even addressed by Capers during his weekly shows as well as Palmer, Capers and Casserly after the season on KTRK's review after the season.
The Texans took David Carr because they felt that he was the BPA. They wanted to start the franchise with a QB that would be a franchise cornerstone. If I recall they took Boselli and Young to be the bookends to protect Carr, unfortunately Young was ineffective and Boselli...well we know that story. When you speak of the city's most beloved players, that was for a different team with a different mentality, this was the Texans' first draft, it was the decision they made to take the player they felt would give them the identity they wanted (how was that a load of crap?). A comparison that is an opinion in which many would disagree with and is moot in regards to Palmer who yourself said has yet to take an NFL snap. What about trying to make something out of nothing? So because he showed a little perserverance and wanted to make a play that wasn't there. I will admit there were times he needed to throw it away, but those were rookie mistakes. The point of my statement regarding learning from veterans is that Carr is doing what he has to do to in order to be the best he can be. If Harrington and the other 62 QB's in the league do it thats fine, but Carr could've come in with a giant ego and decide to do his own thing. Its nice to know that he is a student of the game. I'm glad you support the team. And Carr didn't show poise and leadership when helping Fresno St. during his senior year by being a Cinderella story and upsetting some major teams at the time? Who happened to throw just as many interceptions as touchdowns his first three seasons as the starter. Palmer had a great senior season, and I take nothing away from him, but Carr in my mind is the better player, just as you have an opinion, that is mine. In your previous post you stated that "he couldn't do that against lesser talent in the WAC", then you mention,"I would take Harrington over Carr, both guys showed the ability to win on the highest level of college against top talent, not second tier football. " Let's be sensible here, if you can play the game, then you can play the game, it doesn't matter if you do it against D-I, D-II, or D-III. If you have the intangibles to make it and you have the will and drive to be the best you can do it, Rice is a great example. Umm... I guess there were fourteen idiots on draft day 1985, iirc I was playing with my He-Man action figures and Transformers outside that day. Bruce Smith was a great college player (so I've heard) and if he was such a can't miss player then the Oilers would've taken him, however he obviously wasn't on the top of their draft board. It is well documented that the Texans did their homework on Carr. Do you seriously think that the Texans would've drafted Carr if they didn't think they could help him correct his throwing motion and with his tendency to hold the ball too long? If Carr was as hopeless as you describe him to be then they probably should've taken Julius Peppers and decided to change their entire defensive system so that Peppers could be better implemented into the system, its my belief that Peppers was the BPA. The Texans chose Carr, so I stick by my team and in hindsight I'm happy they made the pick. You may have seen things in Carr you didn't like but I'll take Charley Casserly and his scouts assessments on talent over yours every day and twice on Sunday. Thats like hating the Oilers' players who left because you hate Bud Adams. There is a fine line between observations and negative comments. Carr was the first player taken in last year's draft, he will be heavily scrutinized throughout his career, and especially in his first season. Of course Palmer, Capers and Casserly are going ot be truthful and say that improvements need to be made, but thats what happens when you have an expansion team. They are a brand new team that is going to have aches and pains. Lets give it some time before we decide to start being so negative about the team. You can do as you like, thats your perogative as a fan.
They had the first f-ing pick, that no longer means you are taking the BPA, it means you should take THE BEST PLAYER IN THE DRAFT, and Carr (in my mind) IS NOT that. That is the problem. If Vick were available or Henson had finished up school and was what he was hyped to be, then you take the QB. You do not just selecet a QB b/c that is how you want to start a franchise, you pick him b/c he has a chance at greatness. There were few players in that draft that you could say could achieve that, Carr is not one. There was a poll and of the other 31 GMs if they were to have had the pick and were starting a team and you need EVERY THING, and less than 5 said they would select Carr. He WAS NOT the best player available. Again, did you think that Glen Rice was going to come to the Rockets and be anywhere near what he was at the Hornets or even the Lakers? Hell no. Same goes with Boselli. Everone was scratching their heads on that one and spooke of what a risk it was. He had not played in a year and a half at the time, you thought he would come here and be who he once was? There was Bryant McKinney & Mike Williams 2 guys who were in their early 20's, not 30 coming off of injuries. Smart move by the Texans?????? YOU DO NOT DRAFT TO HAVE A COVER BOY, you do not need to worry about the city identifying with the team as much a you do winning. That is what will make people care. Not that they have a QB who has a great personality. They are building a franchise, they have needs at every position, who gives a rats black ass about the team's identity, NOT ME... I want some wins and I seriously question the moves thay are making which brings me to.... Perserverence? Something out of nothing? He surely did that, he had nothing so he held the ball until he got something... a sack for negative yardage. What you are talking about there IS THE EXACT THING I am talking about when I say poise and pocket presence. he does not have it, and its highly doubtful he ever will. I went to school with the current highest paid defensive player in the league, as well as a nuber of friends in college. The one thing they all have stated was simply that you can make it through HS and College based on your athletic abilitiy, but when it comes time for the por's, you have a HUGE adjustment, and you have to have MUCH more that athleticism. You must have the intangibles, Carr does not. The point is you can be a student, if you do not have the ability to get it done it does not matter how much time you study or watch film. To be great are you saying all you need is to be a student of the game??? If so, keep an eye out for my son, I am going to sit him in front of the TV today to start studying film... He is 3, I bet if he starts now and studies for the next 18 years, he will be the next Montana I watched 4 of his games as a senior including his best game ever versus Mich St. He is a good college player, and has some ability, but he did not have the things that I refer to again and again. One full year gone and I saw ZERO improvement in his game. I am not looking for him to have 400 yds per game, I was looking for some strides toward getting better and tweaking the throwing motion. His motion got worse as the season went on. Casserly himself said that they think it may have some to do with his arm strength or conditioning. I certainly noticed it whenI look at him in college early in the season then at the end, as the season went on he began to drop his arm more and more. After noticing it from him in college, I paid extra attention to it this past season, and low and behold he did it again. The kid has patterns he falls into, and he has not shown any signs of getting out of it. On the part about doing their homework. Sure they admit that after the Senior Bowl they went and watched all of his films. But it was at the Senior Bowl (prior to watching the films) they decided to take Carr. They took him b/c he was well grounded and had a good family, and have admitted as much. NOTE: The Texans decided to pick Carr that week and the other top rated QB Harrington was either sick or injured, and they never went to see him workout, or do drills, I do not call that doing your homework. One of the reason the Texans did not work out Harrington is b/c they liked the other things about Carr (personal life) and they did not want to create controversy if Joey had great workouts. they NEVER went to see Joey, a guy who many say was better and everyone says was AT LEAST as good as Carr. How is that doing your homework? WHOA THERE TIGER, before you go posting things, you need to read what else YOU wrote... What has changed??? Or is it that you agree that he was not? I agree Peppers was a better player than Carr as was Williams, McKinney, Jammer and Roy Williams. I would not have been as upset with any of ht You could not be more wrong. Disliking an owner and disliking management namely the moves made by the GM are two completely different situations. I assume you are smart enough to realize that so I will not insult you by describing the differences. Well I can certainly appreciate that, but before I let you go, let me leave you with these two words... Heath Shuler. Have a wonderful day!
Man you have got some serious problems. I thought this was a nice little debate and you want to start dropping four letter bombs. You know hwat I'll put it like this...you have your opinion, I have mine and thats that. There's no use debating wiht someone who feels the need to use profanity and fails to see things from both sides of the glass rather than one side. NOTE: I never said I BELIEVED David Carr was the best player available, I said the Texans believed he was the BPA.
