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Peace in the Middle East?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by Hottoddie, Feb 25, 2002.

  1. Hottoddie

    Hottoddie Member

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    This, if it happens, could be very interesting. Let's hope that it does.

    http://apnews.excite.com/article/20020225/D7HTCBTO1.html

    Israel Eyes Land-For-Peace Plan


    Email this Story

    02/25/2002 6:17 PM EST

    By DAN PERRY

    JERUSALEM (AP) - Israel said Monday it is exploring with interest a tentative Saudi proposal that calls for an Israeli pullout from virtually all the territories it occupied in the 1967 Middle East war in return for comprehensive peace.

    Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has fiercely opposed a total pullout. But he knows Israelis are despondent over 17 months of dead-end conflict and eager for a ray of hope. The Saudi proposal offers two things Israel craves: Broad acceptance by Arab states and a negotiating partner beyond Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat.

    However, any discussion of significant concessions to Palestinians could undermine Sharon's governing coalition - a patchwork of parties with widely divergent positions on the land-for-peace idea.

    The Palestinians and moderate Arabs have welcomed the Saudi idea, and Secretary of State Colin Powell said Sunday it was an important step he hoped would be fleshed out in the next few weeks.


    Sharon's spokesman, Raanan Gissin, told The Associated Press on Monday that Israel was "trying to find out through the United States and other sources ... if this is a real proposal."

    "If indeed a reasonable offer is presented ... that will guarantee not just that Israel gives back territory but that real, true normalization will develop - I think you can restore the confidence in peace because most of the people want peace," Gissin said.

    Trying to build momentum, Israel's President Moshe Katsav said Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah - who floated the proposal in a recent interview with The New York Times - should come to Israel for talks, or alternatively receive him in Riyadh.

    However, Katsav has a mainly ceremonial role, and the real power rests with Sharon. When Katsav wanted to address the Palestinian parliament recently, Sharon blocked the plan. In any case, Saudi Arabia has refused to have any contact with Israel while its dispute with the Palestinians remains unresolved.

    One possibility being discussed was for the Saudis to raise the proposal at next month's Arab League summit in Lebanon, but Palestinian officials said they were assured that would not happen unless Israel ended Arafat's three-month confinement to the West Bank town of Ramallah.

    Details of the Saudi proposal remained sketchy, but it was clearly very different from the limited interim settlement that Sharon has said he would pursue with the Palestinians if and when violence subsides.

    Sharon has for decades been a leading patron of the West Bank and Gaza settlements where some 200,000 Israelis live. A near-total pullout would require many, if not most, of them to be removed.

    As described by New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman, the Saudi ideas were similar to the proposal made last year by former President Clinton and former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak - which was fiercely opposed by Sharon, then Israel's opposition leader.

    Barak proposed a Palestinian state in the Gaza Strip and more than 90 percent of the West Bank, with a foothold in East Jerusalem. Arafat held out for more land and a "right of return" for war refugees, which Israel feared could bring millions of Palestinians into its territory.

    Talks broke down amid violence that has to date killed 994 people on the Palestinian side and 285 on the Israeli side.

    Gissin said Israel wanted to know the current Saudi position on refugees and Jerusalem.

    But Gideon Meir, a top Foreign Ministry official, said the prime concern was whether a possible deal would include not just Palestinian but Arab League endorsement.

    "The highlight is that Arab world will embrace it," Meir said. "We take it seriously... It's a tremendous opportunity for Israel - tremendous. It's interesting and important, and I hope it's more than just in a newspaper."

    Some hawkish politicians were less enthusiastic.

    Jerusalem Mayor Ehud Olmert, who is a member of Sharon's Likud Party, ruled out the redivision of Jerusalem implicit in the Saudi proposal and said, while the ideas were a step forward, "we will have to wait until they agree to something more acceptable to Israel."

    Also unclear is whether the Saudis were also asking for an Israeli pullout from the Golan Heights - most probably needed to bring Syria into the fold. Damascus lost the strategic plateau to Israel in 1967.

    The Saudi ideas last week won endorsements in Egypt and Jordan - the only two Arab nations to have full peace with Israel. Jordanian Foreign Minister Marwan Muasher said in remarks carried by the official Petra news agency that they were "extremely positive" and could "break the stalemate in the peace process."

    And in a statement to the Palestinian news agency Wafa, Arafat said the "important positions" presented by Abdullah "represent a clear support and push for the peace efforts" toward creation of a Palestinian state while giving "security for the state of Israel."

     
  2. treeman

    treeman Member

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    I think the most surprised player here would be the Saudi Price Abdullah himself. He never expected the Israelis to actually consider the deal...

    If the Israelis accepted this, then it would be a good way to force the Arabs' hands. If Israel accepted, then the Palestinians would have to accept. As would the Saudis. The Iraqis would look like fools abstaining if the Palestinians accepted. Same for the other Arab states. The Israelis have always wanted to pull out...

    Iran would of course ignore it, and keep supporting Hizbollah and everyone else who wants to kill the Jews.

    If the Israelis accepted it, and the Arabs declined it, then it would clear up the questions of Israeli existence, occupation of the territories, etc once and for all. There would be no doubt left that the Arabs' real goal was destruction of Israel, and nothing less. I would hope otherwise...

    But this would certainly be a welcome development if accepted by the Israelis. Normalized relations between the Arabs and Israelis is a must if the region is to calm down.

    Hopefully, we're not about to start seeing Oslo II here, though. That was a disaster.
     
  3. Mango

    Mango Member

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    Fatah doesn't like it.

    <A HREF="http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/020223/2002022312.html">Fatah and the Saudi crown prince peace initiative with Israel</A>

    <i>
    Palestine-Saudi Arabia, Politics, 2/23/2002

    The central committee of the Palestinian national liberation movement Fatah has warned against the grave consequences implied in the initiative of the Saudi crown prince Abdullah Bin Abdul Aziz concerning finding a settlement for the Arab- Israeli conflict.

    In a statement, the movement said that this initiative and other settlement initiatives with Israel are but a new stab against the struggle of the Palestinian people and their uprising and legitimate rights.

    The statements stressed that nobody have the right to bargain and give up the lands and the rights. It questioned saying: "Did Saudi Arabia give up its demands to border areas under disputes with brotherly Arab states, so as it permits itself to propose initiatives that give up the territories occupied since 1948 and serve Zionist and American schemes and conspiracies at a time when Palestinian Intifada and resistance are increasing and the 'enemy' suffers a deep strategic crisis."

    The statement indicated that the Saudi initiative drops and ignores the right of return for more than five million Palestinian refugees who were expelled from their territories. It called not to divert the risks of the American campaigns against certain Arab states, including Saudi Arabia, at the expense of the Palestinian people and their legitimate rights.
    </i>


    <A HREF="http://www.palestine-info.com/index_e.htm">Palestine Info</A>

    That site still had a story talking about the right of return, so it appears that Hamas isn't interested in the Saudi proposal either.
    They also are starting to slip on keeping their site current.


    Going through a week of archives at the Palestine News Agency site finds no mention of the Saudi proposal.
    <A HREF="http://www.wafa.pna.net/">Palestine News Agency</A>

    I have yet to find Palestinians positive about the Saudi proposal other than Arafat.


    Mango
     
  4. treeman

    treeman Member

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    Can't say that's surprising...
     
  5. Hottoddie

    Hottoddie Member

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    Yeah, I guess that if there was peace in the region, then the idiots wouldn't be able to keep killing people. I guess the fact that the Palestinians are losing their people at a rate of 3.5 to 1, is not reason enough to seek peace.

    When I read crap like that, I know that what Bush is doing is the only option available to us. The killings have to stop.
     
  6. glynch

    glynch Member

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    I also saw an article suggesting this. Some Israelis, primarily intelligence and reservist types, rather than the politcos like Sharon, have begun advocating unilateral withdrawal from vitrtually all post 1967 lands due to it being more easily to defend those borders than isolated settlements all over the west bank etc. In a wierd sense they were advocating their position partly because they thought the most radical Arabs would be threatened by such a move, which would undercut their support.

    Maybe there really is the beginning of a soloution, and the isolating of the fanatics from both sides, the settler/ religious fanatics on the Jewish side and hamas or whatever fanatics on the Palsetinian side. Let's hope so.
     

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