I'm sure this reminds Orlando of a certain Shooting Guard they had a couple years ago...Although, Hill is older than Penny was at the time. I hope this isn't a career-ending injury.
Nah, being in Orlando, it reminds no one of Penny, especially the way it has been handled. Hill has been all class and the fans are understanding of his injury (for the most part) because he has been upfront and has tried to work through it as best he can. Penny left the city for Houston for treatment, had no class and did not care about anything or anyone in Orlando. He was trying to cover up his injury the entire time and never showed the commitment to getting better that the organization and city wanted to see. Fans in Orlando like Hill for the same reason they liked the Heart & Hustle team that went 41-41 two season ago - because he is a blue collar player who is trying everything in his power to return to full health. The only similarities are the duration of the injuries.
I didn't take into account the actual attributes of the players, but the fact that they were both all-stars, popular/marketable, and were once "The Next Michael Jordan".
I recall Manning in college, and while Grant Hill was good, Danny Manning was a brilliant player. I think the talent levels of the two players were comparable based on what I've seen. Hill has had a better pro career than Manning because he lasted longer without getting hurt, but there was a very good reason Manning was taken No.1 overall, he was that good. As for injuries, I think you understate how catastrophically Manning blew out not only one of his knees, but both of them.
All injuries aside, you never heard anyone discussing Manning as anywhere near "the greatest player ever" like the experts and those around the game have with Grant Hill since his injury. Whether or not Manning could've done well if he wasn't injured is another question, but 20 and 10 on a bad team is not elite status by any means. The way Grant Hill dominated games and led his team for years reminds many of Michael Jordan. He may still return to greatness after his surgery today - but with such comparisons that Danny Manning never drew - no matter how long he played for - you can't question Hill's ability, especially on that level.
Whoa now. Manning's Clipper teams were no worse than Hill's Piston teams, and Hill drew Jordan comparisons only because he was the first of the "Next Jordan" players in the NBA, not because he dominated like Jordan did. Manning was at least as talented as Hill was, it is a good comparison.
I have to agree with Puedlfor. Before his injury, Manning had as much or more game than Hill ever had. You need to remember that the Rockets were set to trade Hakeem for Manning and Roberts, but the clippers didn't have the balls to do the deal. At the time, I'll admit I didn't think that the deal was so bad. In hindsight, it was.
A look at Manning's numbers even BEFORE the knee injury suggests otherwise. 88-89 16.7ppg, 6.6rpg, 3.1apg 89-90 16.3ppg, 5.9rpg, 2.6apg 90-91 15.9ppg, 5.8rpg, 2.7apg 91-92 19.3ppg, 6.9rpg, 3.5apg 92-93 22.8ppg, 6.8rpg, 2.6apg 93-94 (LAC) 23.7ppg, 7.0rpg, 4.2apg 93-94 (Atl) 15.7ppg, 6.5rpg, 3.3apg After that, and his knee injury, his numbers went down. He never was the same player after that, but he never put up all around numbers like Hill did, even with (argulably) better Piston teams to hinder his numbers (scoring and rebound wise). 94-95 19.9ppg, 6.4rpg, 5.5apg 95-96 20.2ppg, 9.8rpg, 6.9apg 96-97 21.4ppg, 9.0rpg, 7.3apg 97-98 21.1ppg, 7.7rpg, 6.8apg 98-99 21.1ppg, 7.1rpg, 6.0apg 99-00 25.8ppg, 5.3rpg, 5.2apg Steals numbers overall are a 0.4 steal per game advantage to Hill; blocks are 0.2 blocks per game (.87 vs .63) advantage to Manning. And I'm not talking about then with Grant Hill, I'm talking about now. Manning may have been the predecesor to the "new breed" of power forwards these days, but his play never drew the comparisons that Hill's has. Adrian Wojchenowski of ESPN had a nice article the other day, available here: http://espn.go.com/columns/wojnarowski_adrian/1298070.html There is not a GM in the world who would not have signed or traded for Hill when he was a free agent, nor is there a GM or team now that wouldn't trade for him if the Magic put him on the block. He did more for his team than Manning ever could, even with a team in transition. Manning may have been very talented, but pre-injury for both players, Hill outperformed him in every statistical category - even for those where Manning would have an advantage, such as rebounding. He may well be one of the best college players ever and if not for this injury, one of the best NBA players ever. He may still be that - only time will tell, as the recovery goes.
I hate to break it to you, but you wanted to bring it back up, not me. Your facts are wrong. Danny Manning's first knee injury, the one that started the downward spiral, occured 26 games into his rookie season. #1 A 26 game statistical analysis is not a sufficient sample size to judge rookie numbers. Most rookies get better as the season goes on. #2 The reason you don't hear about what could have been is because Manning had 26 games injury free vs Hills several years. Manning never got a chance to establish himself. Remember 'Danny and the Miracles'? Danny Manning grabed his NCAA team, put them on his shoulders, and carried them to the championship. By himself. This is something Grant Hill never did and, despite the impressive numbers, never will. He droped from the #1 overall pick to #3 because people questioned, despite all of the skills, his lack of dominance and leadership. He still hasn't proved them wrong. How about this quote, from the Jayhawks play by play anouncer for the last 30 years on Manning vs. Wilt Chamberlin: Of course, with the monicer 'magic fan clark' as your bio states I'm sure you're completely objective. I can't imagine that you ever saw that NCAA tourny or that NBA draft. The closest thing I've seen to such a sure thing for overall #1 pick was Tim Duncan, but there was less doubt about Manning.
Manning a consensus #1? Well, no wonder! Look at the players also drafted in that draft! Charles Smith #3, Chris Morris #4, Tim Perry #7, Willie Anderson #10, Will Perdue #11, Harvey Grant #12, Jeff Grayer #13, and so on - the only top player out of that draft was Mitch Richmond at #5. Yet, in 1994, you have such players as Glenn Robinson, Jason Kidd, Donyell Marshall, and Jalen Rose. The last player from that draft is still in the NBA, and overall that draft was relatively deep with talent. You've got that right. An established rookie's first 26 games are often not representative of his entire season, as they are his BEST games. Ever heard of something called the rookie wall that even the best of rookies hit? Those first games were likely Manning's best play for that season, whether or not he had been injured. Being a Magic fan has nothing to do with my support of Hill. Heck, he's played about 20 games for the team. Everything he did came with the Pistons - a team I happen to hate. To even put Manning above Wilt is laughable. Wilt put that team on the map and is probably the best basketball player ever. Manning did nothing to distinguish that program from the rest - Wilt's play and notoriety did. Let's see...sure #1s - ever hear of Shaquille O'Neal? Even MJ didn't go #1 in his draft, yet turned out to be the best player in that draft. Hill has been dominant when healthy, something Manning never was. Many players have come back after tearing ACLs...as I recall, Mo Taylor is soon to be one of them. He had no drop off in play after returning from that first injury - it wasn't until he tore the left ACL before he had problems. He rarely msised games again until that point, showing it did not inhibit his health. In that 6-7 year span, he never showed flashes of greatness that would get him favorably compared to Grant Hill, yet alone Wilt Chamberlin, quite possibly the greatest player of all time. Believing just any KU announcer is like believing Bill Walton, who has been around the game every bit as long as he has. And it's not like Wilt didn't have problems of his own as well. As I recall, Grant Hill won not one but two titles in college and has been called, by Coach K, as the most complete player he ever coached. Look at who else Duke has seen pass through their doors into the NBA - and look at Kansas. I'll bring about this quote from the official webpage of Grant Hill... I rest my case. Stats and facts prove the issue.
Say Hill does have a career ending ankle problem next year. Like Jayson Williams had, what would happen if he retired. Do the Magic get cap space? or Does the league decide that? A heathly Hill, McGrady, Duncan, Miller would be too much for Shaq and Kobe In my Bias opinion
