At first, recognizing the Taliban as a religious decision of conscience, I emphathized with the Mr. Walker because I understand somewhat what it's like to be driven by faith even when it's unpopular. But it appears he went beyond just being a Taliban or student. Al Qaeda is a pure through and through terror network. If he knewingly joined with that and he symphthized with them---then he should pay for it.
Two Points: 1. Does that mean we should round up everyone who is involved with or sympathizes with the Al Qaeda network and kill them? I don't believe we rounded up and killed all the Nazis. 2. Treason - This is a tough one. But, since I am anti-death penalty, I have to stick with my guns (umm, bad choice of words?). In war soldiers kill or be killed (at least that's how it's supposed to happen). But, when there's alternatives (i.e. Life in prison), then they should be taken. Is what Albert Einstein did considered treason?
Originally posted by DREAMer Two Points: 1. Does that mean we should round up everyone who is involved with or sympathizes with the Al Qaeda network and kill them? I don't believe we rounded up and killed all the Nazis. Nazis gave up when the war ended; they were not sworn terrorists. When you state that the meaning to your life is to kill others, it only makes sense for those 'others' to try and get you first. We should assassinate them all. ..Is what Albert Einstein did considered treason? What did Albert do?
Nazis gave up when the war ended; they were not sworn terrorists. When you state that the meaning to your life is to kill others, it only makes sense for those 'others' to try and get you first. We should assassinate them all. So, you're saying that the Al Qaeda network is worse than the Nazis? To say we should kill everyone associated with the Al Qaeda network is asinine. What did Albert do? He left Germany (while under Nazi rule) and moved to the U.S. Where he aided in the development of our atomic weapons. He also divulged information as to how far along the German scientists were in the development of their own atomic weapons.
i think the distinction cohen is trying to make is that al qaeda remains a threat in a way the nazis no longer did when the war ended...this is a very different kind of war...terrorism never ends, but will always be a threat...these guys have made it their life-mission to kill american civlians...maybe if they "pinkie swear" that they won't ram planes into office towers in my country again, i'd consider letting them live...otherwise, i think the world is a better place without them and justice is served with their death. yes...if the nazis win, i'm sure einstein's actions amount to treason in nazi germany or nazi-occupied America...good thing they lose. whew! of course, i have no idea what the legal standard is for treason in nazi germany.
I read a blurb somewhere today saying that since America never officially declared war that the dude coudn't be executed for treason. Dunno how true it is though...... Personally since I don't advocate the death penalty, I think a life sentence in a supermax federal pen would give numbnuts a chance to think about his screwed up allegiance to a terrorist group.
I hate to say it, but most of Al Qaeda is pretty dead set against surrendering or changing their ways. Unless you can guarantee that they'll be locked up for life, without any communication with the outside world, then they've got to be killed. Our friend Johnny here was one of the last at Mazar to surrender; he had no intention of surrendering if he had any say about it. He was one of the last 30 who was holed up in a basement and wouldn't come out - until they literally flooded him out. The human body naturally tries to prevent itself from drowning... And out he came. Too bad he survived... There's been some talk about the possibility that this guy couldn't be tried for treason because he was fighting Afghans for the Taliban, but everyone conveniently forgets that there were US troops at Mazar as well, one of whom died and five of whom were wounded. It also can't be argued that he didn't know he was fighting Americans, because the American who died had interrogated Walker just hours before he died, so Walker knew that Americans were there with the Northern Alliance. And I don't care for the charge that this guy was brainwashed. He's over 18, and he makes his own choices... But even if treason charges don't work, conspiracy to commit murder - the murder of the American CIA agent who died in the fighting - will.
But even if treason charges don't work, conspiracy to commit murder - the murder of the American CIA agent who died in the fighting - will. How do you charge someone with murder for the death of an opposing soldier during a battle? Don't work that way. I hate to say it, but most of Al Qaeda is pretty dead set against surrendering or changing their ways. Unless you can guarantee that they'll be locked up for life, without any communication with the outside world, then they've got to be killed. Hmm, lemme say that from a fundamental Muslim extremist's point of view: I hate to say it, but most of the U.S. is pretty dead set against surrendering or changing their ways. Unless you can guarantee that they'll be locked up for life, without any communication with the outside world, then they've got to be killed. How is that any different? If not, then why don't you respect their actions? If so, then how? You can't vilify someone's actions if yours are no better (and similar).
Ignorant American speaking, but if the Al Queda/Muslim Nation destroy us with phase 2, after Ramadan, should we tighten the reins or let the Muslims commit phase 3?
The thing is, either it is a war, in which case he can be tried for treason, or it is not a war, in which case the murder charge is appropriate. I am not in favor of the death penalty, especially the way it is implemented now. Since he wasn't lucky enough to die honorably onthe field of battle, he should spend the rest of his pitiful existence locked away in an Afghan prison.
Just a minor point concerning the comparason of Nazism and Al-Qaeda: The Nazis were a recognized political party, while Al-Qaeda is a terrorist network. Carry on.
DREAMer...the two are not the same. americans never declared war on al qaeda...they declared war on us and are targeting our civilians. we can either kill or be killed...it's that simple. you can go through the moral gymnastics all you want...you can be DEAD right if you want...I'd rather make sure these guys can't pull this crap again.
1. Does that mean we should round up everyone who is involved with or sympathizes with the Al Qaeda network and kill them? Nazis gave up when the war ended; they were not sworn terrorists. When you state that the meaning to your life is to kill others, it only makes sense for those 'others' to try and get you first. We should assassinate them all. An utterly inhumane statement if referring not just to Al-Qaeda who die fighting to the end, but those who surrender and or captured alive. Please reconsider or clarify.
DREAMer: If he's fighting against US forces in battle, and the goal of his group is the downfall of the US (Al Qaeda's goal), and he's a US citizen, then you charge him with treason. If that's not the case, then you charge him with conspiracy to commit murder as I said. That one would surely apply. Either way, he's fu*ked. Personally, I think we should let the Afghans have him... Most in the US don't condone attacking civilians. Al Qaeda does. That's enough of a difference for me... If you think that the US is on the same level as people who intentionally murder civilians in the thousands... Well, why don't you join Al Qaeda? gr8-1: If "phase 2" kills a million Americans, then people will wake up and do everything necessary to stop these guys from prosecuting "phase 3". Apparently, the 9/11 attacks just weren't enough of a kick in the a*s for many Americans...
Briefly: The last big treason case the US tried was a spy who gave secrets to the Soviets who caught and executed ten American spies. He also compromised about 100 operations. He didn't get the death penalty; he got life in prison. Why would a low-level scrub, a citizen (as opposed to a high-level CIA agent), get a harsher penalty for a treason that is more symbolic than substantial? On Nazis: Nazis did engage in terrorist activities (Night of Broken Glass, Burning the Reichstag, general street thuggery, conspired to blow up the Eiffel Tower, etc). The only significant difference is they did it from the comfort of government offices.
<b>So, you're saying that the Al Qaeda network is worse than the Nazis? </b> In the U.S. view in a way yes they are. They attacked the United States on U.S. soil that's why U.S. citizens view them as worse. It's the same reason that Pearl Harbor is remembered, this was actually WORSE then Pearl Harbor in a lot of ways.
