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Shold Bush be Indicted or Impeached?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Apr 15, 2007.

  1. glynch

    glynch Member

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    There are interesting argument to be made on this topic.

    Indictment has the advantage that it can be done even after he is not president.

    Impeachment can only be done while he is still president as far as I know.
    I think you could indict him and impeach him at the same time as long as he is still president.

    Felony conviction and jail time would send a message to future presidents. So would a successful impeachment.

    Tough call on impeachment vs indictment of Bush. . Discuss.
     
    #1 glynch, Apr 15, 2007
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2007
  2. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    It'd be a petty victory for the Democrats at the expense of winning future elections.

    No matter the appeal in the idea, there is still a significant portion of Americans who don't trust the Dems.
     
  3. Major

    Major Member

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    Indict him for what??
     
  4. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Felonies.

    A starter for research:

    United States v. George W. Bush et al.
    (Paperback)
    By Elizabeth de la Vega


    Yes, a former federal prosecutor who writes for TomDispatch.com, drafts the indictment and presents the case against Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and Powell to a grand jury.

    An incisive thinker and persuasive litigator, de la Vega leaves no doubt that the leaders of the Bush Administration are guilty as charged.

    The presentation before the grand jury that de la Vega presents may be hypothetical, but the crimes are not.

    Grisham and Turow write gripping legal fiction. Elizabeth de la Vega had a bigger challenge. She had to make a diabolical betrayal into a good read -- and she did.

    As de la Vega notes in her afterword: "Their crime was -- and continues to be -- far worse than the Enron Fraud. We must not shrug our shoulders and walk away."

    From Publishers Weekly:

    By revisiting public statements, official documents and journalistic reports from the months leading up to the Iraq invasion, de la Vega builds a legal case that President Bush and top members of his administration engaged in a conspiracy to "deceive the American public and Congress into supporting the war."
    Drawing on her experience as a federal prosecutor, as well as the work of scholars and legal experts, she brings a well-honed legal perspective to the issue.

    She presents her argument in transcript form as a hypothetical weeklong presentation to a grand jury, including extensive testimony from three fictional investigative agents. Despite her somewhat specialized approach, the author clearly defines the legal terms and issues and avoids jargon. If anything, the book feels casual and straightforward to a fault.... whenever she focuses on the issues at hand—most compellingly in her final analysis of the administration's spurious claims about Iraq's nuclear weapons program—de la Vega makes a persuasive case.

    Elizabeth de la Vega, a former federal prosecutor, was an Assistant U.S. Attorney in Minneapolis as well as a member of the Organized Crime Strike Force and Branch Chief in San Jose, California. Since her retirement in 2004, she has been a regular contributor to Tomdispatch. Her articles have also appeared in the Nation, the LA Times, Salon and Mother Jones. She is not in the Witness Protection Program.

    http://www.buzzflash.com/store/reviews/417
     
    #4 glynch, Apr 16, 2007
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2007
  5. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Re: impeachment.

    I think he should, but I also think it is logistically impossible.

    The 2008 race is already underway. Dems have only had 100 days to delve into the administration. And while I suspect that the popular will moves toward impeachment after a summer of hearings and newly discovered badness and further FUBARness in Iraq, I don't think Congress can lay the groundwork for impeachment any sooner than late fall/early winter. If you're in December, you're 2 months away from NH and Iowa. I just don't see impeachment happening close to, much less in the middle of, presidential primaries.

    Not to mention the Cheney problem. If you're going to impeach Bush, you need to get rid of Cheney first, which further skews the timeline against impeachment.

    The best thing Congress can do is investigate and bring everything possible to light and let the chips fall where they may. We need to know everything about this administration so we never get in this predicament again.
     
  6. Major

    Major Member

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    A bit more specific, perhaps? I could be wrong, but I don't think there is a law against "conspiracy to deceive the American public and Congress into supporting a war."
     
  7. No Worries

    No Worries Wensleydale Only Fan
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    Indict. Convict. Send his sorry *ss to jail and let him finish out his term behind bars.

    Felony? Ordering illegal NSA spying for a start.
     
  8. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    There is nothing that can be proven illegal about the intelligence failures and war. "Your honor, my defendent is a moron." I've read many articles trying to make those claims and I'm pretty sure that most of the people writing them are delusional.

    The warrantless wiretaps are definitely illegal and definitely impeachable. I doubt seriously that anything will happen. If Bush were impeached, who would the Democrats point fingers at.
     
  9. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Particularly with 5 million emails missing from the WH servers.
     
  10. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    Both could be legally done. In fact to indict GW Bush as a sitting President would likely lead to impeachment. Like Rimrocker though I highly doubt it and don't think it is in the interest of the country at the time to do it. GW Bush will be out of office relatively soon and there still is a lot of things that need to be addressed. I don't support Bush but an impeachment proceeding will largely paralyze the government.
     
  11. No Worries

    No Worries Wensleydale Only Fan
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    If indicted 100% of the Republicans would vote to impeach. The money play for the Democrats is to not impeach, and let him move his oval office to a prison.
     
  12. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Should we resurrect the same thread thats been posted over a dozen times or start a complete new thread (by the same person) and beat a dead horse?
     
  13. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    elected officials have been strung up for far less than what these criminals have done.

    illegal wiretaps and spying on american citizens

    torturing people - violations of federal torture act and geneva convention

    $2.6 billion spent of fake news stories and propaganda - there are hundreds, if not thousands of instances of the bush administration engaging in this stuff, and if im not mistaken, each instance is a felony.

    the enabling act...i mean the military commissions act of 2006 - taking away the right to due process and habeas corpus.

    iraq - the lies to go to war and the gross war profiteering that is going on now. hundreds of thousands of innocent iraqis dead over a lie.

    the north american union

    "free speech zones"

    valerie plame

    9/11
     
  14. thadeus

    thadeus Member

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    I think a dangerous precendent will be set if the Bush Administration is allowed to leave office without having to answer to criminal charges.
     
  15. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    If you are rooting for an impeachment, you are rooting against your country. Not because Bush is doing a good job, that is irrelevant actually. This country is sharply divided and Bush is a major centerpiece of the divide for better or worse. (depending on your party of choice) His term is nearly complete and then he will return to his ranch in Crawford to be heard from only briefly for the remainder of his days. If you impeach him however, you will spark another party war that could further deepen the rift in the United States. You wouldn't get the votes to remove him from office, but you would waste tons of tax dollars and polarize the American people, damage the stock market, weaken our international position, etc.

    There is no virtue in impeaching Bush, no matter your views of him as a President, this close to the end of his run as president. It's in the best interest of the country that he be allowed to just ride off on his horse.
     
  16. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    LOL

    You are joking right? We've had presidents who've authorized fire bombings of Japanese towns, internment of American citizens based solely on race, drop the atomic bomb, allow the execution of American citizens living in South America during coups, overthrow elected governments, and possibly even allow American military bases to be attacked in order to drum up support for a war. The precedent was set a LONG time ago.
     
  17. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    I think that precedent was set a long time ago.
     
  18. Major

    Major Member

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    It seems some people here lack a fundamental understanding of the law.
     
  19. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    No they wouldn't. You don't much about party politics if you honestly believe that.
     
  20. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    First off, that's a lie. Second, it still blows my mind how people get angry about spying on terrorists. You realize the end goal is to protect everyone, right? Unbelievable.

    glynch, did you get into the liquor cabinet? Seems like this thread is just a representation of your erotic desires.
     

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