according to encarta.com Turkey is 99% muslim but Islam was removed as the official state religion in 1928. anyway "tin man" found this piece and posted it in the main forum but i think it might fit in this thread as well. i'm not trying to justify any of the anti-muslim actions but i think this may explain the feelings some people have. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/14/national/14FLOR.html Hijackers lived comfortably in Fla., officials say By KEVIN SACK and JIM YARDLEY New York Times VERO BEACH, Fla. -- For the past few years, a handful of Middle Eastern men made their way to Florida to learn how to fly. Some took classes at a high-tech aviation center here, while at least one learned to handle passenger jets at an aeronautical college in Daytona Beach. Still others took lessons on propeller planes at a flight school on Florida's west coast. In each case, the authorities now believe, the skills they learned on American soil may have helped them carry out the worst act of terror in this country's history. In Washington on Thursday, officials said 18 men hijacked the planes that crashed Tuesday, five in each of the two jetliners that crashed into the World Trade Center and four each in the planes that crashed into the Pentagon and in Pennsylvania. Several of the suicide fliers attended aviation academies in Florida. At least one fellow student is at large and believed to be armed; another is in custody, apparently cooperating with federal agents. Unlike the terrorists implicated in the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center, who plotted in secretive cells, many of these men went out of their way to live openly and to blend in. Some knew each other and lived as neighbors in comfortable homes on quiet streets. Some occasionally drank too much in local bars. Some brought their wives and children with them and took shopping trips to the mall in their Plymouth Voyagers. Their children attended public schools and played computer games with the neighborhood kids. While apparently preparing for the most extraordinary of crimes, they lived seemingly unexceptional lives. Here in Vero Beach, for instance, Abdul Rahman Alomari, a Saudi Arabian pilot who officials say helped hijack one of the planes in Boston, arrived in July 2000 to take classes at FlightSafety Academy. He signed a $1,400-a-month lease to rent one of the pastel stucco houses that line 57th Terrace, settling next door to another Saudi student, Adnan Zakaria Bukhari, and just a few miles away from another friend, Amer Mohammed Kamfar. Neighbors watched the men come home each day dressed in the signature white shirts and gold-and-black epaulets that identified them as FlightSafety trainees. They had large, beautiful families, the neighbors said. And while they did not often make heavy conversation, usually offering just a friendly wave or hello, they also seemed not the least bit secretive or mysterious. So it was quite a surprise when a squad of FBI agents roused the neighbors at 5:30 a.m. EDT on Wednesday and shepherded them in their nightclothes to the end of the block, telling them that the nearby houses they were about to search might be booby-trapped with bombs. The shock only deepened as the agents whisked Bukhari away to their Miami field office for sustained questioning about the Pentagon and World Trade Center attacks. Kamfar's neighbors, meanwhile, would soon learn that the police had issued an all-points bulletin for him, warning that he might be heavily armed. And while the FBI has not confirmed the names of the suspected hijackers, local law enforcement officials here have suggested, at least, that Alomari, the father of four, was one of them. Roy Raymond, the Indian River County sheriff here, said some 30 FBI agents and another 30 local law enforcement officers were involved in the raids Wednesday on four houses here, and that Alomari seemed to be the bureau's primary interest. Kamfar, meanwhile, apparently remains at large. That came as unsettling news to his former neighbor, Hank Habora, who said Kamfar introduced himself simply as "John" when moving into a rented house next door last fall. The man and his wife, who wore a full-length Muslim garment known as a chador and spoke little English, had four children and possibly an infant. Two weeks ago, Habora said, the family moved away abruptly, discarding much of their clothing and other belongings in the trash. A van pulled up to the house and honked, and the family got in and drove off, he said. "If he was dangerous, he never showed it while living here," Habora said. Farther up the coast in Daytona Beach, another man being investigated, Waleed Al Shehri, learned how to fly at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, a four-year institution considered a national leader in training pilots. He graduated in 1997 with a degree in aeronautical science and the skills to handle a commercial jetliner. As a foreign student, he hardly stood out at Embry-Riddle. The university said its student body represents more than 100 nations, many of them from the Middle East. Al Shehri is from Saudi Arabia, and Embry-Riddle officials said he attended on a full four-year scholarship paid for by the Saudi Arabian government, an arrangement not considered unusual. He was regarded by faculty members as studious and intelligent. "A very mild-mannered person, small in stature," recalled Dr. Frank Richey, 62, a professor in the school of aeronautical science who was among several faculty members interviewed by the FBI about Al Shehri. "He seemed to be very friendly. He was probably one of the last persons I'd expect to do something like this. He didn't appear to be a religious fanatic at all." Real estate records indicate that Al Shehri lived at an apartment complex in Daytona Beach, and law enforcement officers canvassed it and other addresses in the area Tuesday night. But he apparently has not lived in Daytona Beach since 1998, and records suggest he may have moved to Vienna, Va., for an undetermined time. Whether Al Shehri ever overlapped with any of the other suspects in Daytona Beach is unknown. Real estate records indicate that a man with the same name as another suspect, Mohamed Atta, lived at an address in Port Orange, a neighboring town, at roughly the same time Al Shehri attended Embry-Riddle. Atta remains a significant focus of the FBI's attention. A videotape taken from the Portland, Maine, airport Tuesday morning showed him and Alomari passing through security gates before flying to Boston, according to officials in Maine. Both men made the connection to American Airlines Flight 11, the first plane to strike the World Trade Center. In the past two days, agents have searched an apartment in Hollywood, Fla., that Atta rented from May 13 to June 13 along with another suspect, Marwan Alshehhi. Unlike the aviation students in Vero Beach, Atta and Alshehhi moved around more frequently. From July to November 2000, they were students of Huffman Aviation in Venice, on Florida's Gulf Coast and for some time in the first half of this year the two lived in Hamburg, Germany. By mid-May, they were back in Florida. When Brad Warrick saw Atta's picture on television Wednesday, he instantly recognized him as the polite, well-spoken man to whom he had rented a car three times in the last six weeks. Warrick, who owns Warrick's Rent-A-Car in Pompano Beach, said Atta first came into his office Aug. 6 and appeared to be someone who had lived in the country for years. He rented a car Aug. 6, kept it for a week and drove 254 miles. After returning it, he came in for another car Aug. 15 and kept it for two weeks, driving nearly 2,000 miles. At one point during that rental, Warrick said Atta called him, saying he was in Venice, Fla., and that the "service engine soon" light had come on. Warrick said he told him not to worry about it. On Aug. 29, Atta returned the car for servicing and rented a third one, which he kept out until Sept. 9 after driving 1,035 miles, Warrick said. That car was still sitting in the parking lot, not cleaned or serviced, when Warrick saw Atta's picture on television. He called the FBI, which sent out agents minutes later and towed the car to Miami, also taking the original rental contracts. Later, Warrick thought it odd that Atta -- whom he described as nicely dressed, usually wearing a polo shirt, slacks and dress shoes -- had been concerned about the condition of the car and had returned it two days before the hijacking. "I mean, if you were going on a suicide mission, why not just leave the car at the airport?" Warrick said. "But he seemed like a model customer. I wish all my customers were like that. Well, I guess not." As the pilots sought to hone their skills, they apparently used numerous flight schools to "practice," as Atta told the operators of Palm Beach Flight Training in Lantana, Fla., where FBI agents showed up Wednesday and Thursday seeking information. For three days last month, Atta rented a single-engine, low-wing plane for $88 an hour from the school, saying he wanted to increase his flying hours even though the school's operators noted that he was already a certified commercial pilot who had 300 hours of flying time. It was not, however, only the aeronautical pursuits of possible suspects that captured the FBI's attention in Florida on Thursday. The manager of a Daytona Beach strip club and sports bar said agents had collected evidence at his club after three Middle Eastern patrons who visited the club Monday night were heard loudly predicting coming bloodshed in America. John Kap, manager of the club, the Pink Pony and Red Eye Jack Sports Bar, said FBI agents on Wednesday took credit-card receipts, copies of the men's driver's licenses and a Quran. He declined to identify the men but said all three had Central Florida addresses and spent a few hundred dollars on lap dances and drinks between 11 p.m. on Monday and about 2 a.m. on Tuesday, hours before the attacks. "There were a lot of anti-American things being said," Kap said in a telephone interview, "and at one point, one of the gentlemen said, `Wait until tomorrow, America is going to see bloodshed.' "
So you didn't mind the palestinians for dancing in the streets for the deaths of 5000+ innocent people, but you didn't like the news showing it? Was it news or you just didn't want "stupid americans" to know? I'm not for violence to any person who means no harm, but if I was over in Pakistan and some white, Christian fanatics did that, I would expect things for me to be different. Sad part of life, but it is life - not something just from "stupid americans".
B]"So you didn't mind the palestinians for dancing in the streets for the deaths of 5000+ innocent people, but you didn't like the news showing it? Was it news or you just didn't want "stupid americans" to know?" [/B] What's wrong with you? Never did he imply that he "didn't mind" the stupidity by those Palestinians. He expressed concern that some stupid Americans (and too many have made themselves known as such with their racism the past few days) would interpret them as being representatives of all Palestinians. That's not the case and some of the media reports have been careless in the way they reported it. "I'm not for violence to any person who means no harm, but if I was over in Pakistan and some white, Christian fanatics did that, I would expect things for me to be different. Sad part of life, but it is life - not something just from "stupid americans"." Is it part of human nature? Yes, but THAT EXCUSES NOTHING. I am expecting to receive extra harassment when I get on a plane two times a week, every week. I don't like it, but I know my skin color creates some uneasiness. I was crying and praying for people I knew in the area (Thank GOD they are safe). I am heartbroken every time I watch someone asking for help in finding their loved ones. I'm sickened and disgusted - more so than many White Americans around me. Just because I come from outside the country doesn't mean I'm un-American. It doesn't mean I'm not willing to die to get retribution against those cowards. But if some worthless, sack of **** gives me flack for being brown and expects me to take it as "part of life", you're going to watch this country divide rather than come together - AS IT MUST. Don't be as ignorant as they are.
I think this problem is being seen everywhere. On my way home from work each day, I pass right by the Northgate Islamic Center in Seattle. Yesterday, as I was driving by, the van in front of me stopped and 2 men were yelling obscenities and flipping off the congregation that was outside. The men then got out of the van and began to walk towards the group outside and continued to yell horrible things that I just don't want to repeat here. I was so beside myself and just reacted w/out thinking. I got out of my car and ran to put myself inbetween the Mosque (the group was all heading inside by this point) and the 2 men (btw- both wearing wifebeaters, missing teeth, etc...). I asked them what the **** they were doing and told them they were ignorant and tha these people had done nothing wrong. Fortunately for me, the light changed and people started honking because our 2 cars were holding up a line of commuters, so the men returned to their van and drove off. I'm a pacifist so I was glad I didn't have to fight, but I guess I was prepared to do whatever it took to make sure something very bad didn't happen and I hoped that I would get some support from the other people lined up at the light. Fortunately, it never came down to that. My car was right behind this van for a while as we left the scene and one of the men jumped into the back of the van and was flipping me off and yelling at me. My apartment is right off this street and when I turned into my parking lot, they stopped their van and waited. I decided it wouldn't be very smart of me to just park and go into my apt, so I drove through the lot and turned into a neighborhood and they drove off. This whole event left me numb and speechless w/ anger that our own people could be this way. To me, that attitude is just as sickening as the actions of the terrorists. Please take a stand if you see anything like this occur. It's disgusting to me that these hate actions would occur w/in our borders, but it is reality. These ignorant people won't change or stop most likely, but if a few of us stand up to them, perhaps that may help. BTW- I'm not sharing this story to brag about myself, but to illustrate just how bad things can be. Unfortunately, I learned this morning that there was an arson attempt at that same Mosque last night... makes my stomach churn.
outlaw, that was a very scary article. These guys seemed normal on the outside, who would have thought they could do this?
"Let us not forget, there was once a great leader in a land called America, in the a place of friendship (Tejas), in the city of Clutch that was also Muslim. They called him a Dream."
Extemists who carried this out feel that most American muslims aren't practicing true Islam. They probably enjoy nothing more than watching fellow Americans turn on each other in this aftermath. Don't give into this crap!!! It's easier to hate, harder to love. I pray that those who would do this stuff would stop.
i just got back from the friday prayer at the denton mosque and it was really good. im happy to say that the community here is really good, a loooot of the people here have expressed their support and realize islam is really about peace and mercy and the local police as well have been unbelievably supportive, and saying that this kinda thing shouldnt be happening. on the flip side, earlier today, someone set fire to the muslim cemetary here. .....sigh.....
What gets me a little infuriated with the media is their bias nature at times. I'm sure most people here have read my posts in the last few days and judge me to be very Pro-American and a Muslim. I watched the news intently and constantly saw the Pictures of Palestinian's cheering in the streets. Then I realized I was seeing the same little group over and over and over and over again. Then at about 2 in the morning when no one is watching they showed a huge gathering of muslims in Palestine having a candle light vigil for all the people slain in the U.S.. They also showed a huge line of people and Yasser Arafat that were giving blood to help the rescue efforts. The media has a beautiful way of Pushing Whatever Image they want over and over when they could be coming from an entirely different perspective. I don't think that they should be choosing sides, they should instead be providing news and let us choose sides! FDK
Jamma, I'm truly disappointed to hear of the recent attacks on mosques in the DFW area. My parents called from Houston Wednesday night, and advised me not to attend Friday (Jum'aa) prayers today for security reasons. Instead I attended the memorial service by UT President Dr. Faulkner at the Tower. Huge turnout (3-4 thousand easily) included Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, and all other religions. We all joined together to sing the Star Spangled Banner followed by "The Eyes of Texas." It was amazing to see people of all creed and color join together to pay tribute to the victims and say a prayer for the rescuers on this national day of mourning. If only the rest of our nation could come together as one like the students at THE UNIVERSITY. Today's ceremony proved once again that the University of Texas is the best school in the land....(I think Smokey and gr8-1 would agree with me here).....and I can't think of any place I'd rather be right now.
I noticed that a guy that was obviously an undercover cop working at a convenience market (that's owned by a Pakistani man) earlier. I thought that was quite interesting. I'm very impressed w/ the Salt Lake police department right now. We have a large Muslim population, and a sensitive police department. My spirits have been somewhat lifted.
HEB, I was born in SLC, and remember it to have a large Muslim community. I can only imagine that it has grown since I moved. From what I can recall, our neighbors were very warm and friendly, as were most people there. Glad to hear that the PD is looking out for the Muslim community.
