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david carr is not, not, not more effective than Mike Vick.

there is no one on this board more critical of Mike Vick than me. but please...Carr has not been MORE effective than Mike Vick.

 

Are you talking about winning games or individual statistics? What is Vick's potential? Say what you will about Mike Vick, but the guy wins games. Something Carr has not, and in my opionion, will never be able to claim. With the above statement, are you suggesting that winning isn't being effective? Right now David Carr is not even close to Mike Vick. Right now, Vick is still other worldly when you pit him up against Carr's run of the mill effectiveness.

 

Over the last 2 years, Vick has a QB rating of approximately 75 (which puts him in the bottom 25% of all NFL starters). To put that into perspective, David Carr has an 81 QB rating over that same span (playing without Andre Johnson for most of last season, not to mention the most abysmal OLine known to man).

Vick is not a good NFL quarterback.

 

Are you saying Vick would have given the Texans a playoff team?

Vick also has a solid team around him....put Carr on that team and they win 10 games easy.

Given what they have to work with, I'd say Carr has done a reasonable job compared to Vick.

 

must...re...sist...vick ....talk

 

Look at their entire careers. Carr has played 60 games...Vick has played 58. So we can compare their entire bodies of work:

Vick's QB rating: 75.8
Passing Yds: 9031
Rushinhg Yds: 2820
Total Yds: 11851
51 passing TD's...39 INT's
19 rushing TD's

Carr's QB rating: 73.7
Passing Yds: 10624
Rushing Yds: 1040
Total Yds: 11664
48 passing TD's...53 INT's
6 rushing TD's


I'm no Vick fan. I think he's DRASTICALLY OVERRATED! I do not think he's a key franchise Pro Bowl level QB. HOWEVER...I think his numbers bear out that he's a better QB than Carr has shown himself to be. Not by tons, mind you. But still better.

All of this is a non-starter for me, however. I think VY is ALREADY a better passer than Vick is. And I think he'll be close to his equal on the ground.

 

Its totally not fair to look at their entire careers...Carr started with a new franchise.

Look at their last 2 years...that is much more accurate.

Vick
QB rating ~75
Completion % = 56%
Yards = 4725
YPA = 6.64
TDs = 29
INT = 25

Carr
QB rating ~ 81
Completion % = 61%
Yards = 6019
YPA = 6.77
TDs = 30
INT = 25

The most telling stat of a QB is YPA...that says a lot, and they are basically even. Vick definitely has the edge in running, as you pointed out.

However, look at the talent around them...Vick has a probowl RB, TE, and an awesome Oline. The defense has probowlers in Brookings, Coleman, and Hall. That team is solid all around. Of course they are going to win more games than the Texans.

In any case, my whole point in all this is that you can have athletic ability like Vick, but that doesnt necessarily translate to success as a QB, since intellectual capacity is somewhat of a requirement for the position. I think Young will be a sweet QB, but he needs a few years before he will be effective.

 

but they don't win when vick doesn't play, that's all I'm gonna say.

 

I can't believe I'm arguing FOR Vick. I just see him as immensely more effective than Carr in terms of getting real production out of that position.

I agree with you that Vick has a better surrounding cast. I think Vick is overhyped, big time.

 

Vick's O-line sucks too, that is all.

 

Actually I will say this, vick needs to be a better passer, my only problem with your argument is the use of the word "effective".

 

The biggest difference in Carr-Vick is W-L %. Before one goes off that Vick has so much better teamates look at Atl's record before he arrived and when he has been injured.

Vick is one of the 10 most effective QBs easily. If he gets more accurate and more touch on his throws, he will be top 3. He probably went from most overrated NFL player to most underrated player in league history. He is still a good, impactfull, player, just not a consistent and great one. Ask defenders if they enjoy playing him.

 

Last year, Vick missed 1 game.

That game, the Falcons lost to the Patriots, with Brady pulling out a victory in the last minute (31-28).

Schaub was 18/34 for 298 yards...3 TD's and 0 INTs. By no means was the team crippled with Vick not being there.

The Falcons werent good with or without Vick. They lost 6 of their last 8 games to end the season.

You guys can say what you want about Vick...yes, he has won more games than Carr. Had he been a Texan last year, we'd still have the number 1 pick this year.

 

Before Vick Atlanta was 4-12 (Chris Chandler was there QB). Since Vick has been there they are 33-20 when he has started, 7-11 when he doesn't. So basically over the last 6 years they are 33-20 with him starting, 11-23 without him. The other QBs during this period have been Chandler, Doug Johnson and Matt Schaub--not a group of slouches, Chandler had been a good NFL QB and Schaub I am fairly confident will be one day (if he isn't already).

There is no way Carr has had this kind of impact or could have done (33-20) what Vick has done with his caliber of teammates. Like I said, Vick last year was quite overrated, now he is quite underrated. Even if his passing flaws keep him from being a great player, he is still a very good and effective player.

 

Vick was hurt last year, didn't run as much, has crappy receivers. I look for Vick to have a big season next year assuming he stays healthy. I am a big fan, I think he has what it taks to be a great NFL quarterback and he has shown that, although inconsistently thus far.