My girlfriend and I decided a couple weeks ago that we'd like to go to the same law school. Since the decision isn't that far away, we decided we'd like to consider where we want to apply, and visit as many campuses as possible this summer. Well, problem: I want to go back to Texas (UT law), and she wants to return to Utah (U of U law). I've visited her there to go skiing one Christmas, and again last summer, but only for a couple days. It seemed like a very orderly place, but it seemed pretty boring as well. Few interesting public places, hard to drink, etc. I'm also concerned about issues of religious tolerance. I've learned of the recent land deal that the Mormon church got, which seemed pretty unethical to me. I've also been told that Mormons tend to cluster a bit, and either try to convert you or ignore you. I'm Methodist/agnostic, so I'm a bit concerned about that. I know that Utah is conservative... and that bothers me a bit, but not too much. I really just want to know if you guys like it, and if my fears are accurate, or not. I know she's giving it a rosy picture right now, because she wants to return for law school. Little does she know I can just ask my trusty fellow cc.net membres ! ------------------ Lacking inspiration at the moment...
Looks like all the utah residents are too busy meeting their 5th wife to post. ------------------ Ceo of the Walt Williams and Lisa Malosky fan club. My Mockumentary atheistalliance.org
Haven, I was born in Salt Lake City but moved when I was still very young. The rumor about Mormons trying to convert you or ignore you is simply false. I recall having very friendly neighbors, and nobody had a problem with having a Muslim live on their block. But if you're talking about law schools, Utah shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as TEXAS. We've got one of the best law schools in the nation....famous for rejecting George W. Bush, and our controversial Prof. Graglia. If you happen to be lucky enough to get in to UT Law- GO! But don't go work for Dell legal team when you graduate ------------------ "Oh No..." -Bill Walton in 97 just before Stockton's buzzer beater
My best friend from college (fallen son of a Presbyterian minister) moved to Utah for grad school around 1985 and now can't be moved. Of course, he married, had kids and got settled. He loves Utah and finds the Mormon's clannishness tolerable. Of course, grad students (but maybe not law students) come from everywhere so there is a Silent Throng of "more liberal" thinkers. I would think that you would enjoy 3 years there but beward of the settling issues if she is returning home. That may be a secret plan. ------------------ "How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak. Because someday you will have been all of these."
I'm not a resident there, but did visit for about a week or so not too long ago. In general, the people there were the nicest people I've ever met anywhere. And there are some cute Mormon chicks, too. But seriously, I found myself wondering if I could live in a place like that. I was only there for a week, so I can't really say. However, I loved the way the place was situated, I loved the people, I don't drink so I couldn't care less about the lack of alcohol. But yeah, everything else seemed pretty boring. ------------------ "I had mine chewed off by a boss one time." -- Behad leaves us wondering if he gets hazard pay...
UT law is a great school, despite Lino Graglia. Too bad we lost Charlie Wright. haven, you might also want to think about where you want to practice after you graduate. The Texas bar exam is tough enough already - I couldn't imagine taking it without learning any Texas law along the way. And, of course, a Utah law degree isn't going to carry much clout in other states, when you go looking for a job. ------------------ I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip that I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.
As far as law schools go, if you want national law, UT's one of the best. If you want to practice in Texas and focus on Texas law, you should consider Tech. I have no clue what U of U is all about. I've never lived in Utah, but my next door neighbor's from there, and she loves it. I hate it when she asks me how the Jazz are doing ... like I keep up with that crap! ------------------ Founding Father of the Refs Suck Club
Here are the bios I looked up at U.S. News. UT Austin is ranked # 15 while Utah is ranked # 45. You can do a detailed comparison of the two schools. Speaking as an undergrad at UT Austin, I'd kill to get into the law school here. UT Austin http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad02/dir-law/glanc_03155.htm Utah http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad02/dir-law/glanc_03157.htm ------------------
Thanks for the info ,guys. I've looked into both law programs, and I know UT's better . I'm certainly qualified for UT - but I'm not so exemplary of a candidate that admission is guaranteed, if you know what I mean, so I definitely need a back-up plan. I also want to apply to Texas Tech and U of H, as well as some places out of state (the list at this point is loooong). The ole gf is really pushing to go back home . Not really sure which of us will win out, but I'd really be reluctant to part ways... ...sorry if I offended any Mormons out there! One of my best friends from high school was mormon, and he goes to BYU (childhood dream)... and he's the one that actually scared me about Mormon clannishness. Said he misses diversity and that his Mormon friends tend to shut people out... maybe not intentionally, but still... ------------------ Lacking inspiration at the moment...
Any city can be heaven, and any city can be hell. Your happiness invariably depends upon you. If you enjoy the mountains, mormon women junked up on Prozac and single again (w/ kids) by their mid 20s, SLC is the place for you. Since you're bringing your own girlfriend/wife (BYOG) like I did, you should be fine. I constantly hear my friends whine about the lack of a dating scene here just b/c the women are either married... or divorced w/ kids. Like our own female friend that's not dying to get married can't date 'em all. Ahhhhh... but seriously folks. haven, if you enjoy the outdoors, UT is for you. The University of Utah is not pedestrian oriented (the half a block of restaurants anchored around the 7-eleven isn't "pedestrian oriented") but at least you'll do great in school.... 'cause you're certainly not going to be staying out late at night. You'll quickly start to wake up when the sun comes up (it's easier to get a good day at the mtn. that way) and falling asleep earlier if you've adequately exhausted your body from running, hiking, snowboarding, whatever. If you're coming to visit haven, let me know. You're more than welcome to crash w/ us (my wife's only killed a few visitors in their sleep). If you'd actually like to get to know us before taking the crucial step of trusting us while you're asleep we'd still love to of course take you guys to the local restaurants(mmm... Bombay or Red Butte), bars(Brewvies lets you eat, drink & watch good cheap flicks), etc. We can also introduce you to our mtns./ski resorts (Brighton is the place where we've bought season passes the past 6 years running), local trails for running/mtn. biking. And btw, all of this is within 30-45 minutes of my house in downtown Salt Lake. Southern Utah... whoa, whole new world. Some friends of mine are doing a 24 hour bike ride comp in Oct. in Moab. Someone else I know rode the entire 24 hours himself, single speed rather than 'switching off like a bunch of *******'. Utah is heaven on earth. I have had Mormons come to my door to recruit me, but it's not too obnoxious. I'd rather missionaries (of any religion) bug a bunch of people in a commercially organized culture than go harass people in third world countries that actually still have some sort of spirit that doesn't include the McDonald's logo. Besides, it's a bit more interesting than trying to figure out why Baptists go to different churches based on skin color in the South (the mormon church had a 'revelation' in 1978 that blacks are okay but that's a different topic). BTW, there's also Sundance! Last year I got snaked by Mr. 'Inconthievable' himthelf. [This message has been edited by Achebe (edited June 19, 2001).]
I think the best way I can sum up living in Utah is this: it is what you want it to be. Baqui--thank you SO much for taking THAT one for me. The religious tolerance issue is not even an issue, at least not from what I've seen, and I've lived in Utah most of my life. Generally, if you make it known that you are not interested in the LDS faith, you are pretty much left alone, and accepted for the most part. As far as Utah being conservative--well, I can't argue that one. This is an INCREDIBLY conservative state. Mormon clannishness...kind of a touchy subject amongst most Mormons I know. I think the main reason for it is just the number of Mormons here nowadays. I'm not totally sure on figures, but I'm pretty sure that more than half the residents of Utah currently are NOT Mormon...however, it is still a culture shock for anyone not familiar with it. It is harder to drink--no argument there. And as far as nightlife--well, you have to look REALLY hard. As Achebe said, if you are at ALL into outdoors, Utah is the place. There are FANTASTIC opportunities for such everywhere in the state--I was bored Saturday morning, so I went with a friend and went hiking up Mount Timpanogos--most beautiful hike I've ever been on...you can pull stuff like that ALL the time, without much preparation at all, if you'd like. All in all--if it weren't for the Jazz, it's a fantastic place to live. Hope I was able to help somewhat. ------------------ Jazzkiller
Hey, Achebe! I've been to Brighton Lake for cross-country skiing. I've driven up Cottonwood Canyon and I've warmed up a hot tub in Park City. I spent my second honeymoon at the Peruvian Lodge in Alta. Utah is gorgeous. I may be coming in August. I don't need a place to sleep but I'd like to look behind your eyes to better understand some of your poetry here. ------------------ "How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak. Because someday you will have been all of these."
I've been skiing at Brighton as well... of course, since it was my first trip skiing at the age of 19, and I decided against taking lessons, I have some not-so-fond memories of one of the blacks. Towards the end of the night (we stayed for night-skiing), I decided I accidentally followed someone down a black. Ouch. Ski. Tumble. Ski. Tumble Tumble. Ski. Tumble. Take skiis off. Walk. Lots of fun though! Achebe: We'll see how well I get along with her mother before I take you up on that , since the girlfriend (not using names can sound awkward, can't it ) is from West Bountiful. It would be really cool if you'd show me around though, since my girlfriend's never told me about any of those places when trying to convince me about how wonderful living in Salt Lake is! ------------------ Lacking inspiration at the moment... [This message has been edited by haven (edited June 19, 2001).]
slc, that's awesome that you got up Timp this past weekend. I hiked around Lake Mary and Dog Lake and then traversed over to Clayton's Peak (also inbounds at Brighton). I'd love to get out to the Uintas this weekend, but I might get trapped into running that Art Festival 5K at 8:00 am this Saturday (like people get up at 8, phhhtht). BTW, I'm not really sure why people always find it really difficult to drink in Utah. I didn't start drinking really until I moved to Utah, and I haven't had any issues yet. You can't drink liquor at normal restaurants, but I don't usually drink liquor anyway. Beer is everywhere, just not alot of the brands that you're probably used to. Anyways, after a while you begin to think as a rocky mountainer. My wife is pondering going to graduate school in Seattle or at Davis, and to be honest... I think that we'll be doing alot of travelling back and forth to visit one another. I can't live in flat areas anymore (a big volcano doesn't count... nor does the ultra long trip to Tahoe from Davis). oh yeah, and slc, if I didn't make my pov clearer earlier (just b/c I'm loose w/ joking about religion period), I of course have no issues w/ the lds faith('no' is strong, there is that whole overpopulation issue but that's cultural ). I happen not to believe in any of these monotheistic religions that IMO evolved as a function of political scale cultures (you have one leader, that leader tells you about this really angry GOD sort of figure that the leader gets validity from & the political state becomes stable). It's for that reason that living in UT doesn't phase me at all, I disagree w/ the mormons just like I disagree w/ episcopalians( ). My friends accept me, and I them. There are tons of things to share in common, like getting outside... snowboarding, whatever. Anyone that would not move to Utah, because of the Mormons, is far worse than anything they could possibly imagine about the lds faith, IMO.
Achebe-- No worries, no offense taken. I don't take a damn word you say seriously. Timpanogos was amazing. My friend kept telling me that was one thing I HAD to do before I left on the mission, and I am SO glad he convinced me. Never been sliding down a GLACIER before...really amazing. As far as the religious issues in Utah, you are the good example of what I'm saying. You live in Utah and obviously have no interest in the LDS faith, but you seem to live a fairly normal life (I imagine ). And exactly, if THAT was someone's reason for NOT moving to Utah, it would be a pretty silly reason indeed, IMHO. About the drinking--I only know what I've been told. I've heard the alcohol content in the Utah beer is less than what it is in other states (hence the teenagers driving to Evanston every weekend)...but if you WANT alcohol, it's not like it's hard to find. Good luck with the Uintas, Heb...lucky punk. ------------------ Jazzkiller
Before anyone moves to Utah, they should have to watch the movie "SLC Punk".... Actually Utah was pretty cool the times I've been there. Don't know that much about the people though. There aren't too many in the places I usually end up on my photo trips. ------------------
