so i just learned of this "incident" yes i just learned it even though it happend 12 years ago (i wasnt here 12 years ago) so what do y'all think happend??
cult nutcases circle their paranoid wagons when confronted by authorities. disjointed law enforcement agencies step on each others toes and make a much bigger mess than necessary.
The senate testimony was very interesting ~ you should check out Waco: The Rules of Engagement (nominated for an oscar). 93% fresh rating from rotten tomatoes The entire Branch Davidian 'event' is just about as weird a situation as we will ever witness.
i was in waco at this time...a freshman at Baylor. i remember military helicopters flying so low over campus. i remember not being able to get a table at IHOP because the ATF and media were all over the place. i remember driving out at night...and seeing the compound lit up like it was daytime...with constant playing of Achy Breaky Heart. never understood why you'd want to make those people "crazier" than they were in that situation. and i remember when it burned down...we drove to the top of a hill and could see it smoking. very eerie, knowing the whole world was watching that scene on TV.
Couldn't have described it better myself. The only thing I remember about it was the surreal-ness of the whole thing. It seemed as if it were too ridiculous to be occurring, yet there it was, happening before our very eyes.
Is it still taboo to talk about it in the Waco area? I remember when I worked there, people were reluctant to really talk about it, especially when out of staters bring it up.
i didn't notice that when i was there. i lived there from 92-96. i know it's a hard thing for a city to recover from...a town of that size, anyway. because your name is unknown...and then is all of a sudden known by the world for this awful thing that happened. but in truth, it had nothing to do with Waco. i think it was handled very poorly, to say the least.
First off, the action occurred in Elk, not in Waco, but sadly the city of Waco has been branded with the Davidians/Reno image for life. The Waco incident was the biggest government agency foul-up of all time. 80 people died needlessly and solely due to incredibly poor planning and strategic thought. 1. David Koresh regularly went into town. Arrest him away from the compound. When your religion strictly follows the Bible's interpretation of the Seven Seals, you can expect the followers to go down swinging -- Armaggedon style. And they did. Don't bring a fight to them. 2. Confidentiality -- The Waco Tribune Herald was leaked information and was actually running large, multi-page spreads on the compound in the days leading up to the siege. 3. Again, confidentiality -- John McLemore, a former reporter for the local tv station was leaked information and was ahead of the ATF agents on the day of the siege. As he was approaching the compound he stopped to tell a mailman that a large number of ATF agents were coming to serve a warrant on the Davidians. Guess who that mailman was? A Davidian. The mailman went back to the compound and the element of surprise was lost. Guess what happened when the ATF agents showed up? Yes, the Davidians were waiting for them, guns in windows. 4. Failure to avoid confrontation -- If you don't want to get agents killed, do not look as though you are coming to blow the place up. On the day the warrant was attempted to be served, the ATF agents showed up in 2 very large cattle trailers, fully armed. Oh no, that won't present a threat to those living inside. Horrible idea. 5. Negotiation tactics. Once the standoff began, the ATF shone lights on the compound 24/7 and played very loud tapes of pigs being slaughtered during the early morning hours. They shut down power and water service and didn't let enough food in. Great idea, drive crazy people crazier. 6. The end game -- With Reno red-faced from the public humiliation of the 60 day standoff, the government had to take action. How do you peacefully resolve a standoff with religious zealots? How about bulldoze the place with tanks and start a fire? Yep, that's what they did. 80 people died as the place went down in flames. Of course, great debate rages as to who started the fire. I actually went to Mount Carmel and toured their little make-shift museum several years ago. A Davidian runs the 'tour' and vehemently insisted that there was no way they could have started the fire, given that the area where the fire started was inaccessible due to prior tank rammings. It's my opinion that the government did in fact start the fire when the tear gas they dumped into the compound reacted with chemicals inside the compound. Of course, I do not defend what the Davidians did. Charges of sexual misconduct, child abuse, and illegal gun possession (hell-fire switches, etc) are very serious and should be dealt with. However, they must be dealt with in the proper fashion. Janet Reno and the ATF screwed this situation up like no other.
I'm not sure if they govt started the fire or not....but other than that, everything TJ just said is right. I remember the Waco Trib articles leading up to it...I remember the build-up. Koresh was shopping at Wal-Mart. There were other ways. The government did a huge show of force that made the problem worse than it was....and people died because of it.
I was in Waco at the time, also. Probably the most disgusting part of it were the t-shirt vendors who set up shop on the only road leading out to the compound. They were selling shirts that said, "I survided the Waco standoff" and other shirts to that effect.
I remember reading in a couple places that the Oklahoma City bombing was in retaliation for Waco....if that's true or likely, anyone care to elaborate?...
Yes McVeigh was deeply affected by the events at Waco and had toured the remains. I can get you more details when I get home - some interesting interviews with McVeigh courtesy of Gore Vidal.
i can tell you people were freaking out in Waco that day, too. federal offices were shut down....and there was a lot of concern that they'd use Waco to make their point, as well.
I don't see how anyone can so arrogantly say 80 idiots died needlessly. no one knows who set the place on fire and it was probably them, and they were armed and ready for a standoff. what was the ATF supposed to do. do you remember how long those guys were out there. something had to give.. what pisses me off is some of these conservatives saying the gov't screwed this situation up against a militia are the same people who will defend some idiot cops for standing on the side of the road beating Rodney King half to death.
I don't trust cults I don't trust the govt. I don't trust the media. So for me I think it was a bad combination. Some days I would like to know what actually happened at the 'Waco' seige and other days I would rather not know anything. I would like to believe that there are Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq that are aimed at the US, that Barry Bonds never took a steroid and Ken Lay is a honest manager and everyone is going to get their Enron pensions back. Maybe Elvis is alive and living with monks in Tibet.
