1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Blackwater Down

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by tigermission1, Sep 23, 2005.

  1. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2002
    Messages:
    15,557
    Likes Received:
    17
    Anyone else is concerned about having these gungho 'private soldiers' operating in American cities? Their track record isn't very encouraging, and even the US military itself in Iraq and other places had to at times arrest some of these people because of their irresponsible behavior. There is something alarming about having trigger-happy career warriors roaming American cities.

    Oh, and do you think employing American soldiers to police American towns is a dangerous precedent?

    I just found this topic interesting and wanted a debate...



    Blackwater Down

    by Jeremy Scahill


    The men from Blackwater USA arrived in New Orleans right after Katrina
    hit. The company known for its private security work guarding senior US
    diplomats in Iraq beat the federal government and most aid organizations
    to the scene in another devastated Gulf. About 150 heavily armed
    Blackwater troops dressed in full battle gear spread out into the
    chaos of New Orleans. Officially, the company boasted of its forces
    "join[ing] the hurricane relief effort." But its men on the ground told
    a different story.

    Some patrolled the streets in SUVs with tinted windows and the
    Blackwater logo splashed on the back; others sped around the French
    Quarter in an unmarked car with no license plates. They congregated on
    the corner of St. James and Bourbon in front of a bar called 711, where
    Blackwater was establishing a makeshift headquarters. From the balcony
    above the bar, several Blackwater guys cleared out what had apparently
    been someone's apartment. They threw mattresses, clothes, shoes and
    other household items from the balcony to the street below. They draped
    an American flag from the balcony's railing. More than a dozen troops
    from the 82nd Airborne Division stood in formation on the street
    watching the action.

    Armed men shuffled in and out of the building as a handful told stories
    of their past experiences in Iraq. "I worked the security detail of both
    Bremer and Negroponte," said one of the Blackwater guys, referring to
    the former head of the US occupation, L. Paul Bremer, and former US
    Ambassador to Iraq John Negroponte. Another complained, while talking on
    his cell phone, that he was getting only $350 a day plus his per diem.
    "When they told me New Orleans, I said, 'What country is that in?'" he
    said. He wore his company ID around his neck in a case with the phrase
    Operation Iraqi Freedom printed on it.

    In an hourlong conversation I had with four Blackwater men, they
    characterized their work in New Orleans as "securing neighborhoods" and
    "confronting criminals." They all carried automatic assault weapons and
    had guns strapped to their legs. Their flak jackets were covered with
    pouches for extra ammunition.

    When asked what authority they were operating under, one guy said,
    "We're on contract with the Department of Homeland Security." Then,
    pointing to one of his comrades, he said, "He was even deputized by the
    governor of the state of Louisiana. We can make arrests and use lethal
    force if we deem it necessary." The man then held up the gold Louisiana
    law enforcement badge he wore around his neck. Blackwater spokesperson
    Anne Duke also said the company has a letter from Louisiana officials
    authorizing its forces to carry loaded weapons.

    "This vigilantism demonstrates the utter breakdown of the government,"
    says Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights.
    "These private security forces have behaved brutally, with impunity, in
    Iraq. To have them now on the streets of New Orleans is frightening and
    possibly illegal."

    Blackwater is not alone. As business leaders and government officials
    talk openly of changing the demographics of what was one of the most
    culturally vibrant of America's cities, mercenaries from companies like
    DynCorp, Intercon, American Security Group, Blackhawk, Wackenhut and an
    Israeli company called Instinctive Shooting International (ISI) are
    fanning out to guard private businesses and homes, as well as government
    projects and institutions. Within two weeks of the hurricane, the
    number of private security companies registered in Louisiana jumped from
    185 to 235. Some, like Blackwater, are under federal contract. Others
    have been hired by the wealthy elite, like F. Patrick Quinn III, who
    brought in private security to guard his $3 million private estate and
    his luxury hotels, which are under consideration for a lucrative federal
    contract to house FEMA workers.

    A possibly deadly incident involving Quinn's hired guns underscores the
    dangers of private forces policing American streets. On his second night
    in New Orleans, Quinn's security chief, Michael Montgomery, who said he
    worked for an Alabama company called Bodyguard and Tactical Security
    (BATS), was with a heavily armed security detail en route to pick up one
    of Quinn's associates and escort him through the chaotic city.
    Montgomery told me they came under fire from "black gangbangers" on
    an overpass near the poor Ninth Ward neighborhood. "At the time, I
    was on the phone with my business partner," he recalls. "I dropped the
    phone and returned fire."

    Montgomery says he and his men were armed with AR-15s and Glocks and
    that they unleashed a barrage of bullets in the general direction of the
    alleged shooters on the overpass. "After that, all I heard was moaning
    and screaming, and the shooting stopped. That was it. Enough said."

    Then, Montgomery says, "the Army showed up, yelling at us and thinking
    we were the enemy. We explained to them that we were security. I told
    them what had happened and they didn't even care. They just left." Five
    minutes later, Montgomery says, Louisiana state troopers arrived on the
    scene, inquired about the incident and then asked him for directions on
    "how they could get out of the city." Montgomery says that no one ever
    asked him for any details of the incident and no report was ever made.
    "One thing about security," Montgomery says, "is that we all
    coordinate with each other--one family." That co-ordination
    doesn't include the offices of the Secretaries of State in Louisiana and
    Alabama, which have no record of a BATS company.

    A few miles away from the French Quarter, another wealthy New Orleans
    businessman, James Reiss, who serves in Mayor Ray Nagin's administration
    as chairman of the city's Regional Transit Authority, brought in some
    heavy guns to guard the elite gated community of Audubon Place: Israeli
    mercenaries dressed in black and armed with M-16s. Two Israelis
    patrolling the gates outside Audubon told me they had served as
    professional soldiers in the Israeli military, and one boasted of having
    participated in the invasion of Lebanon. "We have been fighting the
    Palestinians all day, every day, our whole lives," one of them tells me.
    "Here in New Orleans, we are not guarding from terrorists." Then,
    tapping on his machine gun, he says, "Most Americans, when they see
    these things, that's enough to scare them."

    The men work for ISI, which describes its employees as "veterans of
    the Israeli special task forces from the following Israeli
    government bodies: Israel Defense Force (IDF), Israel National Police
    Counter Terrorism units, Instructors of Israel National Police
    Counter Terrorism units, General Security Service (GSS or 'Shin
    Beit'), Other restricted intelligence agencies." The company was formed
    in 1993. Its website profile says: "Our up-to-date services meet the
    challenging needs for Homeland Security preparedness and overseas combat
    procedures and readiness. ISI is currently an approved vendor by the US
    Government to supply Homeland Security services."

    Unlike ISI or BATS, Blackwater is operating under a federal contract to
    provide 164 armed guards for FEMA reconstruction projects in Louisiana.
    That contract was announced just days after Homeland Security Department
    spokesperson Russ Knocke told the Washington Post he knew of no federal
    plans to hire Blackwater or other private security firms. "We believe
    we've got the right mix of personnel in law enforcement for the federal
    government to meet the demands of public safety," he said. Before the
    contract was announced, the Blackwater men told me, they were already on
    contract with DHS and that they were sleeping in camps organized by the
    federal agency.

    One might ask, given the enormous presence in New Orleans of National
    Guard, US Army, US Border Patrol, local police from around the country
    and practically every other government agency with badges, why private
    security companies are needed, particularly to guard federal projects.
    "It strikes me...that that may not be the best use of money," said
    Illinois Senator Barack Obama.

    Blackwater's success in procuring federal contracts could well be
    explained by major-league contributions and family connections to the
    GOP. According to election records, Blackwater's CEO and co-founder,
    billionaire Erik Prince, has given tens of thousands to Republicans,
    including more than $80,000 to the Republican National Committee the
    month before Bush's victory in 2000. This past June, he gave $2,100 to
    Senator Rick Santorum's re-election campaign. He has also given to House
    majority leader Tom DeLay and a slew of other Republican candidates,
    including Bush/Cheney in 2004. As a young man, Prince interned with
    President George H.W. Bush, though he complained at the time that he
    "saw a lot of things I didn't agree with--homosexual groups being
    invited in, the budget agreement, the Clean Air Act, those kind of
    bills. I think the Administration has been indifferent to a lot of
    conservative concerns."

    Prince, a staunch right-wing Christian, comes from a powerful Michigan
    Republican family, and his father, Edgar, was a close friend of former
    Republican presidential candidate and antichoice leader Gary Bauer. In
    1988 the elder Prince helped Bauer start the Family Research Council.
    Erik Prince's sister, Betsy, once chaired the Michigan Republican Party
    and is married to Dick DeVos, whose father, billionaire Richard DeVos,
    is co-founder of the major Republican benefactor Amway. Dick DeVos is
    also a big-time contributor to the Republican Party and will likely be
    the GOP candidate for Michigan governor in 2006. Another Blackwater
    founder, president Gary Jackson, is also a major contributor to
    Republican campaigns.

    After the killing of four Blackwater mercenaries in Falluja in March
    2004, Erik Prince hired the Alexander Strategy Group, a PR firm with
    close ties to GOPers like DeLay. By mid-November the company was
    reporting 600 percent growth. In February 2005 the company hired
    Ambassador Cofer Black, former coordinator for counterterrorism at the
    State Department and former director of the CIA's Counterterrorism
    Center, as vice chairman. Just as the hurricane was hitting,
    Blackwater's parent company, the Prince Group, named Joseph Schmitz, who
    had just resigned as the Pentagon's Inspector General, as the group's
    chief operating officer and general counsel.

    While juicing up the firm's political connections, Prince has been
    advocating greater use of private security in international operations,
    arguing at a symposium at the National Defense Industrial
    Association earlier this year that firms like his are more efficient
    than the military. In May Blackwater's Jackson testified before Congress
    in an effort to gain lucrative Homeland Security contracts to train
    2,000 new Border Patrol agents, saying Blackwater understands "the value
    to the government of one-stop shopping." With President Bush using the
    Katrina disaster to try to repeal Posse Comitatus (the ban on using US
    troops in domestic law enforcement) and Blackwater and other security
    firms clearly initiating a push to install their paramilitaries on US
    soil, the war is coming home in yet another ominous way. As one
    Blackwater mercenary said, "This is a trend. You're going to see a lot
    more guys like us in these situations."

    http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051010/scahill
     
  2. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    61,728
    Likes Received:
    29,114
    Very Concerned

    Is military Law far behind?

    With the dipping of the volunteer army
    will we move to a Private Army answerable to the paycheck
    and not the constitution

    Rocket River
     
  3. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2002
    Messages:
    15,557
    Likes Received:
    17
    That's exactly my concern. At least we all know as citizens that the government and our military, with all its branches, answer to the people. However, why would an Israeli private contractor who is so used to operating under no one's command -- responsible only to his company, or his 'paycheck' as you put it -- restrain himself from, say, shooting at anyone in sight whom he perceives to be a 'danger'?

    I am really just interested in hearing what people think/feel about this whole 'private warriors' industry, whom are contracted by the government and heavily involved in wars and conflicts overseas and, increasingly, disaster zones right here at home. If the military themselves are 'suspicious' of these contractors, what is the alternative if the government doesn't have the necessary manpower to handle all its responsibilities at once?
     
  4. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2002
    Messages:
    15,557
    Likes Received:
    17
    OK, I didn't notice this part before for some reason, but I haven't heard about this at all, does anyone know if it's 'factual' or just the author's opinion?

     
  5. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    8,196
    Likes Received:
    19
    The Nation - typical liberal stuff. 'nuff said.

    What debate?

    EDIT: make it liberal tabloid.
     
  6. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    61,728
    Likes Received:
    29,114

    so you deny these folx are being used?
    If not. . then how do you feel about it

    Rocket River
     
  7. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    18,287
    Likes Received:
    13,566
    At least if they turn little children into sex slaves here (as they did in Bosnia) they can be held accountable for their crimes.
     
  8. apostolic3

    apostolic3 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,624
    Likes Received:
    0
    Very scary stuff.
     
  9. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 1999
    Messages:
    8,506
    Likes Received:
    181
    Not sure if I'm any more offended by this than bounty hunters being legal. I'm curious what they're doing that the army or national guard can't.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now