Whilst I do agree with most of this, to be fair that dude HATED Jalen, he's definitely not an embittered Green fan lol.
I'm not saying he personally is, that why I actually bothered to type that post and have courteous discourse with him. It's pointless for the most part with the real Jalen fanbois. Wish they really did leave the board for Phoenix like they said they would. First and foremost, Rockets. I'm even fine with trading Sengun, as long as the trade is equivalent and makes us better now and in the future. Just not Giannis, the dude is about to be the next Westbrook and they will want the farm for him.
No Amen is not a DPOY candidate. And that's a huge red flag for the coaching staff. Somehow they manage to not develop or regress every single player. Between Sengun, Amen, Jabari and Tari, Sengun is still the player who showed most development, despite claims that he regressed etc.
The main difference is Denver were invested in Jokic and offered better development for him. Given the coaching staff's overall failure in literally everything, it will be harder for Sengun, or any other player, to keep developing at a good rate.
Like I said, I'm cool with giving him another offseason to get it together. The issue with your approach is that it doesnt really paint the whole picture. Jokic *always* had good percentages from the field and from the line. Sengun hasnt. Jokic sorta scaled up his production from a good starting point. Sengun's percentages have largely stagnated and he gets his numbers from sheer usage instead of actual consistency. Hes a little like Jalen in that way but obviously a much much much better player. They both have just sorta been the same guy for 3+ years now. Honestly Sengun is probably worse than his Year 3 version when he was thicker and had a better inside/out game. The issue (I think) is that the coaching staff wanted him to slim down to better defend in space and on close outs and turned him into this weird tweener that tries to play kinda like Dirk (?) or something when his game is straight up post up. Now he struggles to move guys I dont feel like he used to. Do you really think that career trajectory is all about normal stats like PPG/RPG/APG? You must think Zach Lavine and Lauri Markannen are franchise cornerstones then. Look at Sengun's year over year percentages from the FT line and from 3. Now lets look at Jokic. No they arent the same. We spam Sengun because he's talented enough but ultimately hasnt really progressed in any real meaningful way except just doing the same thing *more*. What has he added to his arsenal since Year 3? Anything? Where has he statistically improved since then that isn't a stat centered around sheer usage or a stat related to teammates propping him up because the team is good? Youre acting like theres some hidden power in him that is waiting to be unlocked but players usually scale up skills theyve shown at younger ages. Its what Morey saw in Harden and what Indiana saw in Haliburton. What exactly are we going to see Sengun do in Year....6? What do you expect to see? A drastic increase in what? Free throw shooting? Look at the year over year numbers. Distance? Look at the year over year numbers. He has gotten *less* efficient around the rim the past few years not *more*. He is shooting worse from the FT line and from the field than previous years. Jokic did take a sharp leap in 3P% in year 6 from low 30s to upper 30s. Is that what you expect? Year 5 to Year 6 is when he became an MVP and all of his numbers skyrocketed. But he was always a good shooter, free throw shooter and offensive savant. Sengun isnt any of these things. I do not see it anymore. I wanted to see "the leap" and instead I got regression. For what its worth, I dont think they will trade him. I think they'll give him one more year and he does deserve that. But we need an actual alternative to him that can come in if things go south and we get this version of him again because this version is *trash*. So tell me exactly what you think Sengun is going to *figure out* this offseason that will ascend him into true stardom. I'd love to hear what of these things will become more than serviceable next year. Or do you just want to bang a drum and say "sengun haterz wya" every time he puts up more than 20 points on the hapless Kings and resting Blazers.
Sengun is still a valuable offensive player. He draws double team in the paint that opens up easier scoring opportunities for teammates. It's maddening that his gravity is not better utilized.
Again, missing layups, terrible shot selection & horrendous foot speed is not bad coaching. Sengun's is a liability in so many areas that Ime has to hide him. The whole double big lineup was to mask Sengun's defense. Stop making excuses and put the accountability on Sengun like you do others. That's not on Ime
Interesting that you say I don't paint the whole picture. I feel the same about the haters, although I will continue to say you are a more reasonable one, that's why you are willing to give him another offseason to get it together and I do agree with the coaching has done him no favors in his development of his body or his skills (although Ime still runs laps around Sil@ss). Now, let's get into this Sengun/Jokic thing. First of all, no, of course they are not the same, however, you actually act like Jokic didn't also have inconsistency in his development, yet he got better. And that's my point, you act like Sengun can't get better. Jokic also stayed about the same kind of player, looking at the stats you listed, like year 3 he shot almost 40% from three, but year four and five he shot 30% and 31%, before bringing it back up. Looking at adding a couple of extra seasons, he even had another dip in 3FG% the following year. He also started shooting better in year 5 and 6, when he turned 24 and 25. Also interesting, on year 7, at 26 years of age, not only did his percentages jump up yet again, his points per game went from 19.9 to 26.4, and even higher the following season when he hit the official NBA prime age, 27. Jokic demonstrated improvements in areas he had been up and down in, and other areas he was strong to start with became even better. Absolutely shocking, who would have though players could improve after 23 years of age and 5 years in the league? Only haters think career trajectory is set in stone at season 5 and 23 years of age. He could literally improve everything in his game with the right coaching and training. Will he? Time will tell, but the possibility is definitely there. So far, his career trajectory has him at 2x all-star at 23, which is more than Jalen ever has or will. Could he be stuck at the Sabonis, Lavine, Markannen level if he doesn't improve, a 1-2x fringe all-star? Absolutely. He could also be the next Marc Gasol with 3 NBA all-stars and contributing to a championship team, or he could, if he maxed out potential maybe even become Pau Gasol, with even better career achievements. I doubt he will become Jokic and be an MVP, but acting like he can't improve and become better is player hating at full blast, and just make anyone who claims otherwise look foolish. Yeah, I celebrate all good performances, and also recognize when he has a down game. Of course he has had both good and bad games against good and bad competition. But ya'll act like he never has good games against good competition. Yeah, I celebrated the Kings and Blazers performances the same way I celebrate the 39-11-7 against OKC, or the 17-12-11-3-3 against OKC again, or the 20-13-9 against San Antonio, or the 28-11-7 against the Cavs, all good performances, against great defenders, in contending teams, in which he contributed to the Rockets' wins. Let's not act like he hasn't performed well against high quality competition, that's just straight up lying. I get it you don't see it anymore, when you say he can only be what he currently is and will never be better. But to claim he never will? That's just hating. Since you asked, I can see he has potential to improve pretty much any area of his game, like any literal other 23 year old that is already a 2x all-star. I hope he focuses on multiple things, but number one will be getting his consistent touch back around the basket, and hopefully improving his all around 2FG%, 3FG% and FT%. Heck, becoming stronger again will be crucial as well. In the meantime, I'll continue say "hey haterz wya" after good performances against any team because haters only show up when it suits you to bang your drum of hatred, usually after he has a down game, and continue to be absent when he has great performances.
He absolutely knows he has to be better. Next season will be huge for him, and can determine a lot of his career trajectory.
I love Sengun, but two things happened to him that negatively impacted his development. One, getting paid. Two, having a great Euro tournament. He got to work from the perimeter and be the #1 option and it went to his head. He’s still capable of putting up big numbers, but time will tell if he’s able to regain what he had pre-payday.
There's actually a few things to take out of that. 1) He's putting way too much pressure on himself and it's clearly affecting his confidence. 2) Turkey and their fans are putting way too much pressure on him and its affecting his confidence. 3) He's beginning to see the gravity Reed has and how it opens up more stuff for him.
It's actually insane Ime the supposed defensive genius has neutered the defensive rookie Amen. Man I miss that player.
I’m sure this was said two years ago, it was said last year, and it will be said next year. He is still only 23 years old. It would be idiotic to trade Sengun, unless you can get a haul or the top pick in this upcoming draft. Boozer is another Flagg level prospect.
I've lost all hope that either of them figures out how to shoot. I'd trade them both. Sengun because he just isn't good enough on either end and Amen because you just can't hide him anywhere on offense that he makes double teams elsewhere an easy task. It's gotten so bad that on a couple possessions against Miami, Amen was standing in the weakside corner with Alpi on the strong side low block and Amen's defender was literally standing in the paint, 20 feet from Amen. On a pick and roll with the two of them, Amen the ball handler both defenders went with Alpi as he rolled into the lane .... Eric Gordon isn't having fun ..... neither am I, playoffs roll around they are one and done.
if you’re keeping ime, it really doesn’t matter much which combination of trades you do. All of the forum is full of threads trying to identify the problem and offer solutions. There are two common denominators, ime and roster construction. I would fix ime first and then work on the roster because I have no faith in ime being successful with another roster.
I'd send Ime to Siberia. His might be the worst offense ever created, it's unwatchable. KD has saved him with his fantastic shooting .... otherwise this offense is anemic. Not to mention his handling of Reed.
