We talk a lot about Jalen when he has the ball: shooting, dribbling, driving, etc. But that’s a small fraction of each game. Brooks and VanVleet do a lot on defense. So do Smith and Thompson. Some of these guys also do a lot off the ball on offense. Jalen doesn’t. He’s an uncanny scorer, and that’s worth a lot. But for most of the game, he’s lazy, passive, or slow. He’s a weak link. For the last 20 games, basically since Sengun got injured, I’ve watched nearly every minute of every game, focusing on Jalen the whole time. When he’s out, I’ve watched comparable young players: Whitmore, Thompson, sometimes Smith. My goal was to assess what Jalen can or can’t do, what he seems interested or uninterested in doing, what’s his overall value, and whether we should commit to him or make him available in trade. These have been Jalen’s best games. His performance with the ball has been impressive. But my conclusion is that we should not extend him at this point, and we should be open to offers. We should spend the next year evaluating his improvement or lack thereof. That’s just my overall opinion, FWIW. Here are the observations that go into it. 1. On rare occasions, he shows the ability to be a good defender. For reasons I can’t explain, he suddenly becomes intent on denying the ball handler a path to the basket, blocking a shot, or stealing a pass. It’s frustrating that he so rarely does this. But it shows he has an extra gear. It looks like his main problem is motivation, not ability. (Whitmore shows much more interest in this. Maybe he’s just hungrier.) 2. His defensive inadequacy is obscured by the fact that he’s always assigned to a shooter in the baseline corner. Thompson and Whitmore are more likely to be put on a ball handler in the middle. When Jalen does end up on the ball in the middle, the classic scenario is that he goes over the screen and lackadaisically trails the ball handler to the basket. He shows nothing like the intensity of his attacks on offense. Which leads me to ... 3. He’s entirely focused on the ball. When a shot goes up, he thinks only about elevating to grab the rebound. He pays almost no attention to the players around him. This makes him comically useless at boxing out. On one play I literally saw three opposing players blow by him on the way to a rebound, and one of them dunked the putback. You can see the same thing when we gain possession. Jalen is suddenly excited. He goes from passive to high speed in a flash. He takes off down the court. He wants that ball. Likewise, in the half-court, he hangs out well behind the play. If he gets the ball, his brain clicks on, and he maneuvers for a shot or a drive. If he doesn’t get the ball, he hangs out and just watches. 4. He rarely cuts. I understand that he’s a shooter and spacer, but you can cut, make yourself available, and end up across the court in another shooting position. Other guys (Thompson, Whitmore) do this way more than Jalen does. I can’t believe Udoka doesn’t want him at least trying this. It looks he just doesn’t feel motivated to do it. Maybe it's because he doesn’t have the ball. Or maybe he's uncomfortable. I don't know. 5. He loves to have the initiative. He likes to change speeds and directions when he feels like it. This is typical with talented offensive players (e.g. Harden). But to play good defense, you have to train yourself to react to the opponent changing speed or direction. Given how talented Jalen is as an athlete, and how long he has played, I’m amazed at how little interest he has shown in developing this. (It’s not just about youth. Whitmore is 19 and seems quite interested in it.) And I’m worried that having the initiative might be fundamental to the way Jalen plays. Is he even capable of training himself to play without it? 6. Jalen’s physical style relies on long strides, the use of his arms, and a peculiar way of running that I would call “floating.” With each step, he lifts off the court and almost flies by defenders. It’s glorious on a fast break or a knifing drive, but it’s completely ill-suited to defense, where you need small, quick steps to cut off an attack. You need to grip the ground and defend with your chest. Instead, Jalen ends up off balance and reaching wildly. He’s too late to make contact with these reaches, but if he were faster and just as inept, he’d soon be in foul trouble. Putting these points together: Jalen’s long-term value depends on how much of this he can develop. If he’s only useful on offense when he has the ball in his hands, and if he’s such a defensive liability that we have to stash him in the corner (or have our other players pulled out of position because he can’t handle a screen), that severely limits his utility. At this point in his career, how much of his inadequacy can we still attribute to a lack of good coaching? And how much is just that he doesn’t care, and will never care, about the part of the game where he doesn’t have the ball? If I’m Udoka, I’m willing to give him another year to show what he can do. But if he hasn’t shown more by then, I would adjust my expectations and my plans — contract, trade, whatever — accordingly.
Green has the natural talent to be amongst the undisputed best players in the NBA, but he is too prone to coasting on his talent. At this point, the Rockets might be better suited to let it ride with Green. That is unless some GM gives the Rockets an offer they can’t pass up on.
I’m frustrated by all of this extension talk for a guy who hasn’t really played well for 3 years. It boggles my mind. It’s pretty simple. Don’t commit money to someone who hasn’t earned it. The hyper Jalen support for what amounts to a month long positive stretch in 3 seasons of play is straight up nuts. If he plays well through the first half of next year then maybe hold onto him, but we need to have trades lined up for the deadline if we aren’t moving him this offseason. I want him to succeed, but he’s had the longest leash I think I’ve ever seen for a prospect that has played poorly for 3 seasons.
Jalen fans have to get their minds past that he was the 2nd Pick in the draft and ask themselves, if he was the 50th pick in the draft would I be cutting him this much slack? The answer? Hell No! They act like it was their draft pick, their money, their time and they want to get their money's worth. You aren't going to get it with Jalen. I understand he is a young man and he's immature but culture is what you are setting. Amen is twice as intelligent out there on the court. He's a more gifted athlete, better distributor, far superior defender, and just plain more mature and serious. He doesn't act like he wants to be a Tik Tok star on the side. He's all business. I say for culture sake, get the best deal you can for Jalen and move forward with the other 5. Hell, Id be just fine with trading Jalen for a shot at a high pick in the '25 Draft and a decent asset. Culture is what wins you Championships and I just don't think Jalen will have the maturity for a long time to be focused enough to lead a team. Just look at the distractions he's now got with that mess of a woman Draya. She's going to f that young man's head up. . .bad.
I feel you just speweted words out of your butt. Green isn't averaging 30+ minutes in a NBA game if he isn't giving effort on defense under Ime. "Long strides". What? What are you even talking about? Are you on some type of psychedelic? At no point is Whitmore assigned to the primary ball handler as a defender relative to Green. Compared to Amen, absolutely. Amen having a dpoy ceiling is part of why he's so special. But also Green has to exert the most energy post Sengun on offense. He's the one defense scout for. He's the one pushing the rocket the most. So relative to some role players he's going to be hovering around the baseline on defense for periods. I wonder if people realize Green is one of like 6 players in the entire NBA that started 82 games. Coasted? Jesus Christ people haven't **** takes
Dude stop being so insecure. It has nothing to do with you that some people love things that make us focus for longer. You feel this way about long posts (and probably feel the same about people using "difficult" words) because someone told you you're stupid when you were a kid. You're not stupid. Everyone is intelligent in a particular field. That person who told you you're stupid is stupid and didn't know it's going to stick. Go ask your therapist if I'm making this up. You can get rid of it forever and you can save your insults for people who deserve it. They will pin point the exact memory that's at the root of this and it will release you. Having to attack someone every time they show some depth is like a prison you've put yourself in. A job you've given yourself. Why would you want that in your life? It erodes your nerves and your brain cells. Get rid of it for your own health, be your true self and let people be themselves.
He was given one year of good coaching in his entire life and improved practically every aspect of his game in that season. In the final 30 games he was a better defender than we ever realistically thought he'd be. In the final 25 games (and I'm including those mediocre end of season showings), his offense was excellent for a SG in his 3rd season. He led the team to the second longest winning streak in the NBA after Boston - who just had arguably the 3rd best regular season of all time. I don't get how that's anything but promising. He's not an off ball player or a two way player. If you judged Kobe Bryant this way in his second season (after two years of elite coaching and winning culture) you would come to the same conclusion. Kobe's first breakout was when he went 14-7 during an easy stretch of the schedule with the team's best player injured (Shaq) but still with 2 All Stars in the starting lineup. He was constantly criticized for taking bad shots and he had several instances of disappearing in important games - most infamous of which was 3 consecutive air balls against the Utah Jazz. He did not respect his teammates, which is one of the reasons Del Harris insisted he keep coming off the bench. He disagreed with his coach often. He thought they should clear Shaq out and let HIM post up instead. He barely had to take many shots and he went against bench players. Also very appropriate: his BIG breakout was the final 20 games of his second season. You're also not taking into consideration that mid season it leaked that Jalen wants us to play faster and with more space (use him properly). This was mocked by most here ("just make your 3's!!"). Soon after, coach was forced to implement it after being stubborn about it all season. Jalen immediately takes a step up offensively according to said coach. The coach changes his mind and likes the new offense, insisting that we will start taking more 3's and play faster from now on. He outright said that the personnel and style of play early in the season did not suit Green and also later said Green just kept working despite the frustration. How is it only Jalen's fault that Ime Udoka in every single season of his coaching career needed half a season to figure out how to get his SG going? Ime Udoka had the same issue with Jaylen Brown, they played slow and with a packed paint and it made Brown's offensive numbers dip even though he was having a better defensive and passing season than ever. They're both (Jalen and Ime) accountable for the offense in the first half of the season. The only thing that matters at this point is Green adding muscle and improving his 3PT shot. All this talk about off ball play and rounding out his defense and overall game - seems like people complain about this but don't actually value it at all. He improved all of it and you routinely hear people say he didn't improve anything. And he improved his offense late but that's dismissed as a streak even though it resulted in 11 straight wins - one of the longest winning streaks in the league last season. Don't other teams have easy parts of their schedule? The dude can't win with you guys. Luckily he's winning with Udoka.
This is something probably 85% of us can agree on. Jalen did enough to kick the decision can down the road to next season.
This, you cannot overcome your entire childhood of AAU basketball and no fundamentals even now ramping up under Udoka. You can improve but you can never outlive your past......
I feel like you just recently made this exact thread. Edit: you did. Seems like you just wanna hammer home your opinion on this topic lol. Edit to add my opinion: He has improved quite a lot off ball defensively. His positioning and switches are worlds better. I think the way the coaching staff has him defending the PnR where he goes over the screen and chases down the ball handler is by design. Firstly, hes not who you want defending bigs, at all. Hes waaaay to weak to be trying to bang and guard bigs. Secondly, his quickness allows him to recover quite well on the ballhandler and he often has solid contests when going over the screen and sticking with the ballhandler. I've seen multiple people attack Jalen for this but its pretty obvious to me its by design. I could be wrong tho, im not on the team. Now his transition defense is great. Hes really shined at being the first player back and putting himself in the correct position to stop the transition offense. Hes very good at defending the fast break from opponents, which is something the coaching staff has obviously implemented. Which leads to him standing 5 feet behind the 3pt line. Its not disinterest, in my opinion again, but rather by design to again take advantage of Jalens skillset and strengths. This allows him to kind of play a free safety role on defense after a missed shot or a turnover. Now offensively, his value comes from being able to attack downhill. Until he gets a reliable shot teams are gonna sag off of him a bit. Being this far away does add a bit more spacing, that he currently does not provide much of. Again i believe this is by design this time to limit his weakness. Also, when he gets the ball out there he has the space to try and get downhill with a bit of a "headstart" if you will. Allows him to make a few dribble moves and either try and penetrate or create a shot for himself. Again imo, it appears to be by coaching design to put a player in a position to succeed. Iff what you were seeing was true and he wass just being lazy and disinterested, well Udoka would have damn sure seen it. Udoka does not strike me as the type to just let it slide. In my opinion, again, it appears to me that maybe your preconceived notions bias your opinions when watching Jalen in a more negative light. Similar to how my more positive notions bias my opinions to see more good than most around here. Truth, as they say, is likely in the middle somewhere.
Wow, and here we are. Jaylen improvements are undeniable. We have witnessed growth from him and the team. His off ball skills would be greatly improved if his usage was adjusted. If his playing time was limited, than his contribution would be more valuable. If he felt the need to earn the next play than he would take the current play “off”. The last quarter benching needs to be extended to the start of the next game. An awakening would happen. Maybe he pouts like a little baby but after he is done positive change would happen. He is worth the discomfort. I believe his role within the organization would be better defined as well.
The most entertaining part was where you pretended you'd come up with some brand new notion, and then reframed the exact same tired Jalen argument we've had all year. We get it, we've read the thousands of posts, you don't need to keep rewriting them in a different order...
