US now pushes UN to back 'immediate' Gaza ceasefire to free hostages

Do you deny that Israel hasn’t economically blockaded the Palestinians both in Gaza and the West Bank and built settlements in Palestinian lands? You’re justifying it in another thread.

 

Israel has tried to do what it needed to do to keep "Palestinians" from amassing more terrorist weapons and rockets to aim at Israel.

Clearly, what Israel has done was not enough, as the "Palestinians" were shooting thousands and thousands of rockets at Israel and had enough weapons to commit the October 7th atrocities. They also spent billions building terror tunnels.

So, Israel should have done MORE to ensure that the "Palestinians" cannot commit more such terror attacks.

First, eradicate Hamas, demilitarize Gaza, ensure that ideological indoctrination with hate ends.

 

there is a genocide going on and unfortunately people have eyes and ears, denying it is insane

 

Overwhelming retaliation and revenge is the American Way

You kill 3000 in Pearl Harbor .. . we Drop 2 nukes
You kill 3000 in 9/11 . .. . we kill 100 000 in the wrong country (cause we don't care who did it only that someone non-european pays for it)

Rocket River

 

Perhaps that was because Netanyahu was allowing aid to go to Hamas while crippling the Palestinian Authority and other more moderate groups.

 

I don’t blame the US for their response to Japan after Pearl Harbor. There was a World War going on and Japan attempted to knock out the US navy. The consequences were possibly catastrophic for the Allies had Japan been successful. as for dropping the bomb, the USA repeatedly demanded Japanese surrender after the outcome against Japan was obvious- each time Japan refused.

To be clear - I don’t like it, and certainly do not celebrate it - many civilians died, but I think the decision is very defendable.

As for 9-11, some of that was the Bush administration not wanting their national security failings to be showcased to the American people.

The invasion into Afghanistan is defensible and had international support. The invasion of Iraq was a situation where either the Bush administration lied and knew there wasn’t weapons of mass destruction from the beginning- OR - I personally believe they were so confident that there were weapons of mass destruction that they didn’t bother to wait and find out before invasion. The Iraqi war was wrong at the time and still is. FWIW about 40% of Iraq thinks highly of the USA, and 60% hate the US government.

 

While we use WWII analogies a lot to this conflict it isn’t analogous and the differences have to be understood. Germany and Japan at the start of the war were two of the most powerful countries. They were military and industrially stronger than most of the allies and as Oppenheimer noted Germany in many scientific fields was more advanced. As such they were existential threats to the European and Asian Allies.

Hamas for as dangerous it is isn’t an existential threat to Israel. They cannot win a militarily confrontation against Israel nor even an alliance of Arab countries since Israel has WMD they are even stronger militarily than the last Arab Israeli war. This idea that if Hamas isn’t wiped out then Israel will doesn’t match the capabilities of Hamas or Israel.

WWII was 80 years ago at a time when military technology was less developed but also attitudes regarding war and death. Killing many during war was both acceptable and necessary as we didn’t have the tools to fight wars differently. There weren’t even guided missiles until near the end of the war. Even then by those standards much of WWII was fought so brutally that even the allies debated whether their actions were morally responsible.

To say that now 80 years later that because Dresden was firebombed and nukes dropped in Japan justifies leveling Gaza isn’t comparable. Hamas is neither the threat of those countries nor are we limited to the same technology and tactics that were used then.

None of this means we just leave Hamas alone. They aren’t an existential threat but they are an ongoing threat. It means that we should be limited to WWII thinking on how to deal
With them.

 

STFU.

Hamas just murdered 1,200 innocent civilians in Israel and said they will do it again and again and you are sitting in ****ing Minnesota pontificating about how Hamas isn't a threat.

 

@basso
@around
It's a cease fire

They aren't going to stop til Hamas ceases
that's fire!
breh

Hamas and Woke can suck transgenders nuts off

 

Let's be honest, you're sitting in Florida doing the same thing.

 

Pro Israel Jewish mobs celebrates Women Day in France

 

And I’ve never said that Hamas should just be left alone. I even said that in the above post.

Israel has been fighting Hamas for decades and this isn’t the first time they’ve gone into Gaza or had very heavy retaliation on Hamas and other Palestinian groups. What makes you think even with this there wont be another terrorists attack in Israel a few year from now and the IDF is bombing Gaza again?

It should be obvious to anyone that this is a cycle of violence of reprisal followed by reprisal.

And really? “STFU” “pontificating from Minnesota”. Where are you sitting right now? Are you in Gaza or a settlement bordering Gaza? have you volunteered to fight for the IDF?

 

What a silly argument.

 

Why?

Arab Muslims are allowed to live in Israel.
Jews are not allowed to live in "Palestine".



"Genocide"?

 

He has relationships with people in Israel, so I can understand why this may be a more emotionally charged issue for him.

But Americans have every right to “pontificate” on this issue, given the extent to which we finance Israel’s defense.

 

Israeli settlements in the West Bank are being built under Israeli jurisdiction. Are Arabs in the West Bank permitted to travel freely into or near those settlements? Are they permitted to do business freely with those settlements?

The function of the settlements is to secure more land for Israel. It has nothing to do with integration of Jews in Arab controlled territory.

 

Why does it have nothing to do with it? Why is Israel expected to allow Arab Muslims to live within its territory, free from discrimination, but Arab Muslims are not expected to grant reciprocal kindness to Jews?

 

What are you even talking about? What Arab country is building settlements within Israel right now and transporting Muslims there?

We agree that if a people are living legally under a state’s jurisdiction, it is the responsibility of that state to give them the same rights as any other people, regardless of ethnicity or religion. Any state that doesn’t do this, including Arab ones, should be criticized.

But that has nothing to do with Israeli settlements being built in the West Bank.