1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    30,123
    Likes Received:
    17,033
    Russia may just want to overrun. Russia may want to confiscate all of the NATO supplied arms, seeing how much they have lost in the war.
     
    astros123 likes this.
  2. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    43,376
    Likes Received:
    25,379
    I don't think he needs to.

    He doesn't know what's going on in the battlefield and he'll only change his mind when the reality is undeniable.
     
    Nook, ROCKSS and astros123 like this.
  3. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,266
    Likes Received:
    5,228
    Russia has made significant advances over the last 2 months, after taking Avdiivka. On the current trajectory, Ukraine does not have a credible pathway to winning. Other countries would have to commit their troops, equipment, and significant dollars if the goal is to defeat Russia. I don't think the political will exists to do these things -- it definitely doesn't in America.

    Biden's botched withdrawal from Afghanistan was a key moment in the global balance of power. The US' ability to execute a strategy of deterrence was lost at that point. Deterrence is like reputation. It takes a long time to build, and can be lost in an instant. It was lost then. Now many countries are pushing up on us without fear. A result of Biden's weakness.
     
  4. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    29,707
    Likes Received:
    6,397
  5. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    20,999
    Likes Received:
    12,872
    They may, but it will be costly and won't happen overnight. I would imagine NATO has contingency plans to either destroy or bring back the more advanced hardware. Ukraine would use as much of their ammo defending and retreating.
     
    astros123 and No Worries like this.
  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    54,146
    Likes Received:
    42,136
    I said it was certainly possible but reports of Ukraines imminent demise have been made before even the invasion begin.
     
    Nook, ROCKSS and astros123 like this.
  7. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    54,146
    Likes Received:
    42,136
    Back in February of 2022 there was a lot of talk of Ukraine fighting assymetrically even of them training to do so.

    This wouldn’t be by choice but if Ukraine’s military did collapse it’s unlikely that most Ukrainians would just accept Russian domination again.
     
    Deckard likes this.
  8. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    56,812
    Likes Received:
    39,122
    Russia’s Shahed-136 Factory Attacked By Light Plane Converted Into A Drone
    One of Ukraine’s longest-range drone attack ever targeted the plant in Russia that makes Shahed kamikaze drones.

    BYTHOMAS NEWDICK
    |PUBLISHED APR 2, 2024 12:37 PM EDT

    [​IMG]

    Less than a month after we got our first glimpse inside the Russian factory where license production of the Iranian Shahed-series one-way attack drone is taking place, a Ukrainian attack appears to have been launched against the facility. Today’s may well have been the longest-range aerial strike launched by Ukraine so far and it appears to have involved a previously unseen drone that was converted from a light manned aircraft.

     
  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    54,146
    Likes Received:
    42,136
    Again I want to caution the idea that Ukraine will prevail. It’s a fact that Ukraine faces severe structural disadvantages against Russia and Russian victory, as overrunning Ukraine, is certainly possible. I think though arguments that Ukraine is inevitably bound for defeat are problematic too. Especially arguments that we shouldn’t help Ukraine because they are bound for defeat.

    The numbers have always been against Ukraine but they’ve been able to persist and even succeed on the battlefield even before they were getting significant aid from us and Europe.

    Russia’s own history has several examples of where much larger and superior forces lost to smaller forces. So while Ukraine defeat is possible it’s also possible Ukraine can hold off Russia and even press a successful offensive against them.

    Another possibility is Ukraine could inflict enough damage to force an armistice with Russia that while doesn’t regain all of Ukraine back keeps it as an independent country.
     
    ROCKSS and FranchiseBlade like this.
  10. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,450
    Likes Received:
    54,365
    putin smiles at this maga republican disinformation...

     
    ROCKSS likes this.
  11. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,450
    Likes Received:
    54,365
  12. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    29,707
    Likes Received:
    6,397
    Biden dithers, Ukrainian front lines wither.

     
  13. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    18,283
    Likes Received:
    13,547
  14. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    20,999
    Likes Received:
    12,872
    And we have lots of munition here in America too..... why aren't we sending those too?
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  15. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    48,887
    Likes Received:
    17,488
    Agreed. US should be doing more.

    As someone who genuinely wants to support Ukraine, the one move that would be worse for Ukraine, Europe and the United States, it would be to elect a candidate or in anyway support or make possible the election of a candidate whose stated position is to let Putin do whatever the hell he wants, especially if the same candidate has already humiliated U. S. Intel agencies by taking the word of Putin over the Intel gathered by the United States agencies.
     
    #15835 FranchiseBlade, Apr 8, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2024
    Xopher and astros123 like this.
  16. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,450
    Likes Received:
    54,365


    Community Notes:
    Currently rated helpful
    16h
    ·
    View details

    Shown on X
    Directly addresses the post’s claim · Provides important context
    Note originally added to the video on this post, and is showing on 7 posts that include this video
    Since the start of full-scale invasion Russia has destroyed or damaged more than 100 Christian churches in Ukraine https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15366.doc.htm https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2023/february/ukrainian-churches-damaged-russia-war-religious-freedom-irf.html In Russia proper and on the occupied territories, Russia persecutes other religions, including Christian denominations other than Russian Orthodox Church https://www.csis.org/analysis/russias-religious-persecution-and-misinformation-ukraine https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/faith-leaders-highlight-russian-religious-persecution-in-occupied-ukraine/ https://providencemag.com/2023/01/religious-repression-in-putins-russia/
    Is this note helpful?
    Yes
    Somewhat
    No
     
  17. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,450
    Likes Received:
    54,365
    queen marge...

     
  18. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    30,123
    Likes Received:
    17,033
    Moscow Marge loves her some Protestant Hating Putin …

     
  19. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    19,787
    Likes Received:
    25,702
    Will Marge and Trump embrace Russian Orthodox Church as the only denomination approved for Christians? Will they approve of Putin abolishing other "American religions" as Putin calls them?
     
    dmoneybangbang and No Worries like this.
  20. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    43,376
    Likes Received:
    25,379
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned this. This is a 180 from official ambiguous responses
    https://www.state.gov/secretary-ant...nister-dmytro-kuleba-before-their-meeting-10/

    Instead of getting Putin to concede EU ascension as a win condition for both (assuming Putin would prefer settling proposed gains from land grab and we had enough leverage to make Zelensky agree to it for peace), State has decided to say hell with it and go straight to what they were denying at the onset.

    This could mean...
    1. Something broke with the previous status quo lime such as the tide shifting against Ukranians and blind unconditional support abroad.
    2. Trump's campaign rhetoric rattled the alliance and the US's credibility more than anyone has publicly let on
    3. It's been determined that conceding Ukraine will pose a greater future threat to our Baltic neighbors. Why wait for war when there's already a proxy war at their doorsteps paid with Ukrainian blood and treasure
     
    #15840 Invisible Fan, Apr 12, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2024

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now