What you posted doesn't say whether or not normies are pro-Israel and you are putting hamas against Israel. we are talking about what Israel is doing against innocent Palestinians. Anyway, here is what gallup says with slightly newer data: After narrowly backing Israel’s military action in Gaza in November, Americans now oppose the campaign by a solid margin. Fifty-five percent currently disapprove of Israel’s actions, while 36% approve. https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx
I'm not sure those people exist. Almost everyone I see posting is 100% against the terrorism on Oct. 7th bust also hates that an allied nation that didn't take reasonable menas regrading lines of communication just killed people who were trying to help and deliver aid.
Agreed - and Israel under Netanyahu is working hard to kill off the Palestinians. The only thing that has kept the right wing conservatives in Israel from bulldozing the Arabs into the sea is the fear of being a pariah like South Africa was…. but the October attack was a perfect excuse to turn Gaza into future settler land. Israel cannot procreate as fast as the Palestinians so they have to do something. At this point just get it over with and deal with the fallout. I just wish we would stay out of it.
People demanding Israel agree to a ceasefire is only really viable if both sides agree. Some people can can push for a unilateral ceasefire, but that is something different.
It's also a cultural thing. The US has a history of taking on more risk to protect civilians than most militaries. Not to say that we haven't had our share of atrocities. Israel will not act the same way and will accept more civilian casualties to protect their own soldiers. I also talked with someone that worked with the IDF and still has some connections. There are disagreements on what the soldiers were told for rules of engagement. One example was they were told certain areas were a free fire zone because no civilians were left in the area. Then something goes bad and leadership doesn't take responsibility and blames the soldiers.
Agreed - and I was talking mostly about rogue soldiers that violate orders. Like the marine in Falujah that murdered detainees in a mosque when no one else was around. That was a clear violation of orders but he did it - and actually was turned in by another marine.
Sure... when you have those examples it is clear cut. There is also a very grey side. Sometimes shooting unarmed civilians is the right call. People will probably freak out reading that, but it's the truth. I can think of several examples. Like a group of soldiers are working a checkpoint and they received specific intelligence that morning about a vehicle born IED from a specific kind of car. Then that kind of car is coming towards them and does not react to warning shots. Guess what? They are getting lit up because you can't let that thing get close enough to you to positively ID who is in the car. So everyone opens up. Then EOD shows up to clear it and turns out it was a family and not a car bomb. Happened a lot in Iraq.
Yup - and from what I was told, in Iraq the insurgents would force civilians to approach marines and infantry and then attack when soldiers would tell them to leave the area or in some cases go out to the civilians. My buddy said he had to shoot and kill a little girl in Iraq because he told her to stop multiple times, he spoke in Arabic telling her to sit down or turn around, he shot a warning shot and screamed for her to stop - she didn’t and he shot her center mass like 30 feet away and killed her because he had been told ISIS had explosives wired on children…. Said it was so horrible that he snapped at the guy next to him for freezing and forcing him to deal with it 100%. Only thing that kept him from blowing his head off that night was that she did have explosives on her. He said he learned quickly that someone in “church clothes” or pristine clean clothes walking at you and avoiding commands is a suicide bomber. He goes to therapy 4 times a day. Went from being so violent that he was a danger to everyone - to someone that wouldn’t hurt anyone unless they hurt his kids. He threw up last time there was conflict with a stranger and I was around. Guy tried to start something and my friend threw up on him.
ISIS was on a different level. It's kind of easy to dehumanize ISIS with what they did with women and children. They were a different level of evil. Like using live prisoners in a shoot house as targets so the kids they were training could get used to shooting real people...
Something has changed in the Middle East and the world guys. You guys are not "reading the room" right now. The debate is truly over, if you are a Palestine supporter you can chill. No cause on earth is going to get more people than this to agree on it, the debate is won, everyone that can be convinced has been convinced. I'll leave you guys with a morsel of info so that you can understand just how mind-blowingly things are different right now: the Gulf states, Iran and all their allies/proxies will normalize relations. Israel is spurring on the creation of a Middle Eastern super state that hates it, something the CIA has explicitly strategized to avoid for half a century.
I don’t know. The whole Middle East even Iran is just sitting back watching the conflict unfold. Stern words are hollow in the end. Only the Houthis are responding by trying to blockade the Red Sea. Palestinians are still just pawns in the great game.
A lot of people seem to forget that the PLO did sign a peace treaty with Israel and the Palestinian Authority does recognize the existence of Israel. It’s not as though every single Palestinian is dedicated to the eradication of Israel and all Jews.
No bro, these guys are taking it very seriously. People are unhappy and the leaders don't seem to want to sit back and watch things get shaky in the region. That tends to make their seats and economies shaky, it's not good for anyone. The UAE and Saudi especially have a lot to protect economically - a regional war is so unacceptable and Israel has gone rogue in all people's eyes. Whether you agree or not, the entire region of all colors/ethnicities/religions are unified on this. Literally, anything is better than a regional war. What you watch in the media is SOOOOO far from the true sentiment on the ground in this region. There's no debate here about who's wrong and which murder was the worst. It's just about "how stupid of us to have signed those accords" and how do we force this to stop immediately whatever the cost as long as its fewer lives lost. Who's right and wrong can be decided later, the bleeding has to stop. It's a joke. You and I and everyone in the world knows there's not going to be a day they come out and say Hamas is finished or that the orphans of 20,000 Palestinians won't turn into a more violent rebel movement than Hamas. If an ideology could be finished, Al Qaeda would be dead. Trillions wasn't enough to erase Al Qaeda. What are we doing here? Trying to kill an ideology and 40,000 people are the collateral damage? Really you would accept someone doing that to you or is that your queue to take arms (not you personally just saying in general)? Be honest. That's not a real thing. You wouldn't accept it for you. Too many westerners are unfortunately conditioned to feel like things are ****ed up in the Middle East already so it's different for 40,000 of them to die than for 12 times the death toll of 9/11 to happen here. F*ck that. We built this **** out of sand and oil, it's not a toy to play with. How can I truly illustrate what's going on 2.35% of all Gazans have been killed with no end in sight and the president of the most powerful country in the world says he can't stop it and he must arm it. That would be as though there was an assault on Texas that killed 700,000 people (roughly 200 times the 9/11 attacks) and Joe Biden says he can't do anything about it and no other country can either plus they have to arm those people. It's really twisted. That's why I said earlier, Americans are not reading the room and I don't blame them. I watched some American news on the subject and it's just a refereed debate about who's right or wrong giving each side 50% blame. Ridiculous, this is an assault by a country on people within its borders and close to 80% of the population of earth is yelling to economically or militarily force them both to permanently stop it and negotiate as long as it takes. As absurd as it is tragic. Hope it will be resolved soon. I think we're going to see the Middle East grow up and put their foot down collectively.
how do you know they had nothing to say? and what about you? liking posts that cheer on the IDF in the hours after the aid workers were killed and then posting tweets about how the "celebrity chef" was only delivering "trivial quantities of food" to gaza for a "publicity stunt". youre a bad person.
