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Alperen Sengun is the Rockets' franchise player

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by AroundTheWorld, Jan 17, 2023.

  1. subtomic

    subtomic Contributing Member
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    She is genuinely flattered.

    I should add that Mrs Subtomic and I were at the game yesterday and the energy of the Cavs was almost nonexistent. There was no defensive effort at all and their demeanor was that of a team playing a scrimmage. Not sure how much of their current playoff position is due to Mobley, but they did not look like any kind of contender. I’d even say that they were the worst opponent we’ve seen in person this year and maybe in the last 2 years.
     
  2. Gergin

    Gergin Member

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    It's very encouraging that we are able to continue the streak without Alpi but we have one of the easiest schedules right now. The way some people talk, you would think we beat the Nuggets, Bucks, Wolves and Celtics in a week.
     
  3. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Seems very weird because the Cavs were the hottest team in the East in late February.

    Wins against Boston, Minny, Clippers and the Pelicans on the road in New Orleans before the Rocket game.

     
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  4. AlperenSengun

    AlperenSengun Member

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    A few points about the reasonings here:

    - On/off doesn't show how good the player is. It depends on who is your replacement, your role in the team etc. This should be pretty much obvious. Anyone who uses on/off to argue for how good the player is either doesn't understand what it means or has an agenda. KPJ stans favorite stat was this for some time because there was no back-up guard or scorer in the team, so he was shining in the on/off. It matters what you do when you are playing. On/off is about a player's role, the quality of replacement.

    - Without FVV or a competent guard, this team and most other teams will not function properly. FVV is our playmaker, and Sengun's main pnr partner. Sengun depends on FVV more than FVV depends on Sengun. But that doesn't mean FVV with someone else is better than FVV with sengun.

    - The minutes seem like a lot, i mean it looks like a big sample, but the stat is problematic:
    1) As @CXbby pointed out, part of these minutes come from the time when one of the players is injured. That means when Sengun is playing without FVV(in Feb) vs FVV playing without Sengun(now) are in different times, the form of the team is different, the opponents are different(as @subtomic mentioned spurs, wizards, and a terrible cavs not the toughest opponents). It makes the comparison much less meaningful. That's why the page has a tick box that lets to look at only the games they played together, to have a better comparison.

    2) When you check that box, Sengun has 179 minutes without fvv. That is little but more importantly these minutes do not come from 5 man line-ups that play regularly together. A lot of them play just a couple minutes a game. Same for when sengun is off and fvv is on, but fvv as being a guard is effected much less by this.

    To cap it off, not only you can't use on/off numbers to decide which player is the better one, it also doesn't make any sense to use it to compare players that play most of their minutes together.
     
    #13364 AlperenSengun, Mar 17, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2024
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  5. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    And they are fighting for HCA in the potential second round against the Bucks. MIL is a very good home team.
     
  6. OkayAyeReloaded

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    I understand both sides of the advanced stats argument, having learned and been involved in them for years previously :D

    There were posters who used RAPM, PIPM and variations of plus-minus, WOWY, etc. as gospel, which is flawed IMO due to the stats can be noisy or having flaws as well. I still believe you should absolutely incorporate them, but use a holistic approach to basketball and who is truly good.

    Watching film, yes normal box score stats, advanced metrics, era rules, team support, mentality/interviews/intangibles, and competition level all play a part in how good a player is.

    21-year-old centers who score 21 pts on good efficiency, 9 rebounds, and 5 assists per game don't grow on trees. He's improved defensively and will just get better with a consensus agreement he'll reach an all-star game, having almost made it this year.

    When the guy potentially is averaging 25+ points 10-11+ rebs 6-7+ assists with solid defense and develops a three-point shot he'll be a terror.
     
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  7. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    @Clutch did you see this post?

    @Clutch
     
  8. TimDuncanDonaut

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    Fred is a floor raiser in that while him and Sengun contributes to the more positive Rockets lineups. As a tablesetter, he also contributes in the combinations where Alp is not in the floor.

    I guess I don't see the issue, because in the end isn't that what we Rockets fans want in a pg? ... the fact that PG and other combination with non Alp players is also good, is a good thing no? Maybe the Senhub part of the game can be fine tuned further. But when Alp is resting, Fred being a steady hand is good for us.

    Regarding lineup and replacement metrics. One is synergy, other is replacement.

    We know the synergy between Fres and Alp is good.

    On replacement: one is PG the other is a center. So the replacement factor is less at play here. For replacement, the Sengun part would be lineup data against Jock, Jeff and Adams in the future.​

    Rockets need good players at all positions to succeed. I don't think there's any wedge between FVV fans or Alp fans. Because the duo worked well this season, the sentiment of Rocket fans can like both guys.

    Been very pro-vet. The Silas era has made me sour on the overly youth movement. Start of the season, said: "FVV is likely the best player of the team (that's why we paid him the big bucks)". His value outside of just helping us win games, is when you have a stable force it gives the coach and GM better environmental baseline to see what your young core can be. Which young players can be unlocked (especially the wings and bigs).
     
    #13368 TimDuncanDonaut, Mar 17, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2024
  9. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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  10. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    dork was last seen: 20y 25w ago
     
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  11. dmoneybangbang

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    We aren't better without Sengun, it just gives us an opportunity to play differently and use our athleticism moreso.
     
  12. dmoneybangbang

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    Once more.... LOL at the SOFs.
     
  13. HardenReturns

    HardenReturns Member

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    Your mama's fat.
     
  14. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Contributing Member

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    Maybe the Rockets by comparison to the teams you mentioned look like a schedule speed bump. Don't come out punching and the opponent you underestimated dick-punches you and it's over.
     
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  15. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    “Jalen needs to play fast (to be good)”
    “Jalen needs a certain type of center”
    “Ime needs to hire an offensive assistant to improve the offense”
    “Jalen needs this, Jalen needs that”
    “Alperen needs a 3pt shot for this to work”

    The SHOOTING guard is shooting 32% from distance. (It was 30% not too long ago)
    The “can’t shoot” center is shooting 29% from distance.

    Maybe the SHOOTING guard should “get a 3pt shot” and learn to shoot.

    If Jalen can’t play off of one of the most unselfish players, if Jalen can’t make wide open threes off of double/triple teams of Sengun…

    Sounds like a Jalen Green problem, not a Sengun problem.

    “We need to triple down on our Westbrook mistake and trade Capela. Doesn’t fit, doesn’t work. Westbrook needs a certain type of a center. Rockets need to go small, go 5-out.”

    Maybe keep the guy that has improved every year despite having to work for everything he’s gotten.
    Instead of the guy that has regressed/stayed the same every year despite having everything handed to him.

    But this is the same organization/front office that wanted to extend Victor Oladipo, wanted to build around Kevin Porter Jr., viewed Daishen Nix as a lottery talent, started Bruno Fernando, wanted to trade the farm for Mikal Bridges, so I put nothing past them.
     
  16. Gergin

    Gergin Member

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    It seems like Giannis is holding back Lillard. Trade Alpi for Giannis?

     
  17. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Teaming Sengun with Wemdy on the Spurs would be like a 21st century version of Duncan and The Admiral.
     
  18. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member

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    One of the very few players in the league I would trade Alpi for. Shows how some stupid some of these isolated stats that only fans spew all the time on this forum.
     
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  19. MystikArkitect

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    Rofflestone definitely has a type.
     
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  20. BamBam

    BamBam Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]


    Go Rockets!!!
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