I dont disagree about the inferior development path but I think it's worth noting they both have elite speed/burst as well. The dribbling THEY need to keep up with their speed is faster than the dribble of nearly all other players. They are just like an elite version of a performance car - the things they need to retain control at that speed are not the things the other performance cars necessarily need. Dribbling, like control is contextual to the speed.
That's not really true since they will slow down their speed unless they wanna play out of control. It's not like they have to move at Mach 10 all the time even if they can't control the ball already.
Fair to say that about Jalen but y’all realize Amen is already light years ahead of where Jalen was coming into the league? it is clear as day to me watching Amen, this is a guy that has been taught basketball the right way outside of shooting.
Gotta comment here. I was far and away the most negative person against Overtime Elite of anyone. So much so that I didn't want the Rockets to have anything to do with either Thompson brother. They were radioactive to me. My son and some others were very positive about him and that kept me from screaming out loud when they selected him. But beginning with preseason, watching Amen has blown my mind. The first thing I noticed was how "big" he plays on the court on both ends, both vertically and horizontally. Then his floor vision and passing creativity shocked me. I was sold. His injury and illness were major setbacks in his development this season but he's developing nicely. Most recently, his hands, physicality and anticipation on defense blossomed. He makes it look routine. Compared to Jalen, Amen's bball IQ is way ahead of the curve. How much of it comes from two years at OE we don't know. But, going forward, I will refrain from nuclear blasting OE because of Amen and Ausar. I still believe a year or two of college BB at a major conference is the best prep for the NBA.
I think there's high innate basketball IQ for both Thompsons. But I also wonder if OTE's high pace of play isn't such a bad thing--seeing more possessions means more chances to learn how to process the game. Just speculation on my part.
At a certain point we have to look back OTE's talent level in 2022-2023 as having been seriously undervalued. Alex Sarr could go #1 in this year's draft, and Rob Dillingham is in the mix to go top 5 as well in this year's draft. Both were playing against Amen and Ausar in OTE last year. It's pretty likely that more OTE products will go in the top 5 of both the 2023 and 2024 draft than players who played college basketball.
OTE isn't that huge a problem when you compare it to anything else, tbh. In the longrun who knows what they'll be, but what they're trying to do with kids aged 16-20 is a positive to me. Most of the "star level" guys that go to college are just one-and-done nowadays, anyway. Amen was pretty much Amen before OTE, but I'm sure he picked things up at OTE, whether it be skills, training, habits, etc. He never could shoot the ball, so despite Damien Wilkins, Kevin Ollie, Mike Miller visits, etc. at OTE, he still can't shoot the ball all that well. I doubt college or G-League would've helped him much more if he only stayed there 1 or 2 years. A lot of his non-shooting issues in the NBA early on are probably just related to him getting accustomed to the NBA. Hopefully he's far away from being a finished product, because I expected him to be an elite PG in this league if he could get some semblance of a shot. Hell, I thought he could be a damn good player, in general, because he could play multiple positions and defend.
I have this theory, you are who you are even at 17-18 years old, unless you really started picking up a basketball at 16 or something like Hakeem. Foundational things like basketball IQ, court vision, "feel of the game" is already quite developed when you hit your senior year in high school. You can typically build upon that base, but it is a pretty set base. I don't really think it makes a difference where you do your one and done, whether it's college, OTE, Gleague, Australia etc. You can develop bad habit anywhere, college is no exception.
Yeah, honestly I think OTE has had a much better showing than the Ignite. There are also 2 more OTE alumni who could have been lottery picks in this next draft (Tyler Smith and Izan Almansa). But they went to the Ignite, so that ruined them. Sarr and Dillingham picked much better paths. I wouldn't be surprised if Somto Cyril does OK in the following draft after spending a year in Kentucky. Probably some other names I'm forgetting. I think Dominick Barlow looks kinda decent too, though he's clearly more of an end of the roster kind of guy at this point. But suppose he could still develop into a decent rotation guy at some point. I'm not saying OTE is awesome, especially if you're not in HS anymore, but I'd put it above the Ignite program. Maybe that says more about he Ignite program than OTE. Right now, prospects should be looking at playing overseas (NBL, Euroleague, etc.) or college IMO. If there's any hope for Amen and Ausar, it is that none of those guys were the actual shooting coach for OTE. They did some drills here and there with the twins (Ollie seemingly focusing more on guard drills I think?), but the actual shooting coach seemed to be....not a big name. I don't want to diss the guy, especially since it *probably* won't matter. I'm not sure there's a huge difference in how shooting is coached at these levels, but if there is one, perhaps Amen and Ausar will benefit from the high level trainers in the NBA.
Yeah, I'm pretty much the same nowadays. If you want to see how a player will do in the NBA, get him into the NBA. I'm still waiting to see how good Cam and Amen will be when playing a lot of their minutes with and against starters. Amen has shown flashes of how brilliant he is, but Cam has been better than I thought he'd be with his deep jumper and consistent scoring. They've done this in the Summer League, in the G-League, and now in the NBA against starters. I love seeing that - progression against increasingly better talent. Amen has a ton of stuff to worry about in his role on the ball, off the ball, leading breaks, and playing some stout defense, and it looks like Ime's starting to throw him in there against tougher competition. After everything I've read about him, he won't break - he may not succeed at everything, but it won't be cause of a lack of effort or slacking off. Also, keep in mind Sarr is a different beast - everybody knew he was good earlier because of the way he played against pros in foreign leagues. Not to mention on G-League ignite, they're trying to help showcase a bunch of talent. So on that Ignite team, they have people like Buzelis and Holland who are both mid-to-high lottery prospects competing with Smith and Almansa for time and shots. They could all end up sucking, who knows, but at least from a draft perpective, that's tough to get minutes and shots with all those guys on the team. Kentucky's wealth of high school talent is intriguing if for no other reason than it'll be interesting to see if any of them were being "held back" similar to G-League teams - not enough balls to go around to showcase any one or 2 guys. I don't follow college all that much, so I can't tell, but just looking at their roster, they've got a boatload of former high school stars. Amen already dunked on Somto once in OTE - he can come get some more. OTE is still young. They've had a few high(er) level high schoolers go there, but not the consisten elite-level players that colleges get. Amen and Ausar are probably their highest-level prospects and even they weren't consensus top-10 from what I recall. As for overseas programs, I just don't see kids all of a sudden flipping that switch after a year of any league. Maybe some aspects and to a degree, but like Amen being poor shooter I think is just a combination of him relying on athleticism to get to the bucket in high school for layups and dunks combined with unselfishness and passing the ball out instead of shooting. I don't think any amount of training seems to be helping overcome that quickly. We'll see. But to me, even that fails to completely explain how he can't even be a 20% shooter from 3. That's outright bizarre for an NBA guard especially coming up in an era where everybody and their mother was jacking 3's. It's almost like it's not a deficiency - it's a curse. lol.
Could the OTE and G-league evolve into something like the Euro system where boys in their mid-teens start playing in a real professional environment? The talented guys will rise to the top and be ready for the NBA when they hit 19 or 20, like the 21-22-year old college stars in the old days. I imagine the NCAA will try their best to stop that trend so that young talents won't get pouched by these minor leagues.
The OTE is too money focused and focused to be flashy ..... You need guys that are really into basketball and really loving basketball..... The GLeague has to fight Ignite and rival them, take their players.......
A package of GLeague + Australia NBL would be a great program BTW. Sounds like those travel packages lmao.
With Sarr, I know he was projected to go in the 1st rd, but didn't seem like a top level talent until he started doing well in the NBL and in those summer international games (after OTE). To be clear, I'd give a lot of credit to the NBL for his recent development, but just saying his ~2 years in OTE prior to that seemed to aid him in his development. Certainly didn't hurt him. And yes, the fact that the Ignite are trying to play so many young talents is part of the problem with that program...maybe even THE problem. I didn't try to overlook that in my post. Regardless of the reasons, the prospects that end up going to the Ignite typically end up hurting their draft stock (and presumably their development). Playing against HS kids probably isn't great, but if the program actually split up the talent appropriately and gave you plenty of reps to work on your game, I'd probably take that over whatever the Ignite is trying to do. On the overseas stuff, I just meant that prospects should value that over the Ignite. Probably doesn't make a ton of sense for American prospects who can just go to college, though international prospects (Matas, Izan, Thierry, etc) would best be served to stay overseas I think (especially if they can get into programs at an earlier age). I suppose someone like Scoot could have done that (vs doing 2 years with Ignite). I do think it probably doesn't make a huge difference overall as talent and hard work trumps all, but the Ignite just isn't doing anyone any favors.
Yeah, the Ignite is the location for the best potential talent, which then gets diluted when they all have to figure basketball out and figure out who gets the shots and how they get those shots, all within 1 year. By the time they're getting their bearings, here comes the draft. But that's kind of true in college, too, nowadays, I guess if you look at a lot of the elite programs like Kentucky. One thing about OTE is that they supposedly live and breathe basketball with a dose of school along with it. They can practice as much as they want. Re : Sarr - people had an eye on him since his U19 days (actually even before), but yeah, he's starting to mature physically, but still seems skinny for his height the last time I saw him (which was a few months ago). Now the problem is trying to translate what he's doing there to what he could do in the NBA. To put things in perspective, I think earlier in the season I mentioned Anthony Lamb was the NBL's leading scorer. Re : Matas - his name just sounds international. He was born and grew up in the US to Lithuanian parents.
Yeah, honestly I too don't really follow college hoops enough to know how they are able to handle similar issues, but I'd guess there is more infrastructure and support going on there given the history. And certainly some schools do it better than others. And yes, I recall the twins and some of the other OTE prospects noting how much they loved having 24/7 access to basketball resources (or close to it). No idea how the Ignite stuff works in comparison to the stuff OTE offers (or high end basketball schools for that matter). U19 was last summer, right? But yeah, I know he's had some attention for the last couple years, just seemed to explode following that summer (from mid-to-late 1st rd pick to top 5 or top 1). He definitely has question marks as to whether he can translate his game to the NBA. Doesn't seem big enough to play the center position (and doesn't rebound well), yet not really a good enough shooter (yet) to justify playing him with a non-shooting big. Oops, yeah that's right. I think I just recalled seeing him associated with the Lithuanian National Team (and possibly some other international programs/teams), and my head just lumped him in as a guy who probably spent time overseas. Forgot about him being raised in America. Honestly my brain space has removed much of that Matas information since he hasn't really had a good year at all. He still should have avoided the Ignite.
