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Random first day musings

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Aug 30, 2004.

  1. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    don't think either of these merits a full thread on it's own, but there's a nice commercial from the log-cabin republicans here:

    http://www.logcabin.org/logcabin/hope.html

    and, since i missed bill kristol's interview w/ brit hume, here's a blog-post summarizing why he thinks there's still a good chance Bush will dump cheney for Mccain

    hmmm, cheney as secretary of state? that'll piss off the french!
    --
    RUMOR: MCCAIN TO REPLACE CHENEY?
    Bill Kristol was just on FoxNews irresponsibly disseminating a rumor that he began the previous day on FoxNews Sunday with Brit Hume. Since I love the rumor and fervently wish for its accuracy, it is my pleasure, nay my responsibility, to continue its irresponsible dissemination.

    Reading the tea-leaves, Kristol has concluded that McCain might be poised to replace Cheney on the ticket. Here’s the logic: After his convention speech tonight, McCain is flying out to New Mexico to hook up with the President and introduce him to the American Legion convention and then he’s going to travel with the President to Nashville. Kristol wonders what could possibly occasion this flurry of McCain activity. He speculates that Bush and McCain could make an announcement together in New Mexico and then later in the week triumphantly wing their way back to New York.

    Kristol also perceives a couple of other portents. For the last several weeks, Dick Cheney has been pretty much playing Tupper-ware parties in Fargo. And last week, Karl Rove said that he wants to model the RNC along the lines of Roosevelt’s 1944 convention where Roosevelt positioned himself as a successful war president and dropped his Vice President in favor of a far more popular and less controversial politician.

    Left unsaid in Kristol’s analysis but clearly implicit is that dropping Cheney for McCain would be pure political gold for the Bush administration. Whether deserved or not, John McCain has become a virtual political saint in this country. Both parties, when they seek to prove the right-ness of one of their positions, eagerly seek out a McCain quote to serve as support. Indeed, the one thing that both parties seem to agree on is that John McCain’s word is final. How many times in the past several months has the Kerry campaign implied that they have McCain’s imprimatur on a key issue? Presumably McCain’s presence on the Republican ticket would put an end to this unseemly inter-party fawning.

    A more pressing question is whether true Conservatives can live with John McCain’s presence on the ticket and with it his de facto coronation as the 2008 front-runner? On behalf of all true conservatives, I’m here to answer with an emphatic yes. Look, I’m no McCainiac – far from it. While I find his life story inspiring, I also think he’s the vainest politician of our time, and his repeated thumbs to the administration’s eyes grew tiresome years ago.

    But, and this is the big thing, he’s right on the war on terror. I’m passionate about the full range of issues that most conservatives are, but for me the war on terror trumps them all. By a lot. And McCain has been out front on the GWOT since day one. He was rattling his saber at Saddam before we were even in Afghanistan. Since he’s so right about the biggest issue, I can live with everything else. Besides, Churchill wasn’t much noted for his modesty either.

    None of this is meant to denigrate Dick Cheney. I’ve always been a big fan, still am. But the stakes of this election are huge. If subbing McCain for Cheney will make a huge difference, as it likely will, it’s the proverbial offer we can’t refuse.

    Besides, I have a feeling Cheney will make a bang-up Secretary of State.
     
  2. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Contributing Member

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    Subbing McCain for Cheney would ensure a Bush victory, just like subbing McCain for Edwards would ensure a Kerry victory.

    That being said, I highly doubt it will happen. McCain has stated many times that he doesn't want the office. Besides, Cheney holds too many of Dubya's marionette strings to be let go.
     
  3. Baqui99

    Baqui99 Contributing Member

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    We're 62 days away from the election. A little late to change the ballot now.
     
  4. Baqui99

    Baqui99 Contributing Member

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    Subbing McCain for Bush would ensure a GOP victory. :)
     
  5. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

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    THE BUSH RETREAT?

    "We have a clear vision on how to win the war on terror and bring peace to the world."

    -- George W. Bush
    July 30th 2004.

    "I don’t think you can win [the war on terror]. But I think you can create conditions so that the — those who use terror as a tool are — less acceptable in parts of the world.”

    -- George W. Bush
    Aug. 29th, 2004.
     
  6. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    What a huge

    [​IMG]

    in little under a month. I'm impressed. One can only imagine what will happen in the next 62 days!
     
  7. outlaw

    outlaw Member

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    "the choice is clear", indeed

    Gay Republicans say they are unlikely to back Bush, GOP platform
    Many upset at president's support for Marriage Amendment, a draw for evangelicals

    New York -- At a convention where Republicans intend to showcase their unity behind the re-election of President Bush, the party's major gay group isn't exactly sticking to script.

    Leaders of the Log Cabin Republicans said Sunday the group is unlikely to endorse Bush next week in the wake of the move by a conservative-dominated GOP platform committee to strongly support a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage and oppose legal recognition of gay civil unions.

    "The president's support of the federal Marriage Amendment, and (political strategist) Karl Rove's decision to use gay and lesbian Americans as wedge issues ... and the outrageous and insulting platform language has jeopardized that endorsement," said Patrick Guerriero, executive director of the Log Cabin Republicans.

    The organization Sunday drew hundreds of supporters for a "Big Tent" Log Cabin event, which included New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg.

    But the group's leaders said the views of moderate Republicans being showcased at the convention, such as Bloomberg and California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, clearly are at odds with the message the party is sending to the nation with its platform.

    "The Republican Party can't have it both ways," Guerriero said. "They can't run a radical right campaign strategy that marginalizes gay and lesbians, and at the same put all of Log Cabin's friends out front at this convention.

    "This party has a choice to make, about whether it will be the party of (former New York mayor) Rudy Giuliani and Arnold Schwarzenegger or the party of Jerry Falwell and Pat Buchanan,'' he said.

    Such anger is a sharp reversal from four years ago, when Bush broke GOP ground by courting gays in a highly publicized meeting in Austin, Texas, with a dozen Log Cabin members. An estimated 1 million gays and lesbians voted for Bush in 2000.

    But when same-sex marriage suddenly vaulted to the forefront of the gay rights movement last year with the Massachusetts court decision legalizing such unions, religious conservatives insisted Bush endorse a constitutional amendment to ban them. Bush complied in February. Rove made clear that he considered the 4 million votes of evangelicals believed to have stayed home in 2000 essential to Bush's re-election.

    The endorsement deeply antagonized gays and lesbians in both parties, fueling an enormous fund-raising drive. The Log Cabin group spent $1 million in ads denouncing the amendment. The group plans an ad blitz today in New York contrasting inclusive statements from GOP leaders such as Sen. John McCain of Arizona and the late President Ronald Reagan against anti-gay messages from protesters, religious conservatives and Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum.

    Bloomberg, who received a warm reception at Sunday's Log Cabin event, urged "the politics of inclusion, and not division" and added that "I don't think we should ever use the Constitution to drive a wedge between us.''

    Many of the Log Cabin members said Sunday they could not promise to vote for Bush in the wake of the platform decision.

    "I don't think the president has been the uniter he said he would be,'' said Mark Patrosso, a Log Cabin activist from the Bay Area.

    But how many gays and lesbians vote come fall is "not the issue at this convention," he said. "The Log Cabin Republicans, Giuliani, and Schwarzenegger are the future of this party.''

    Chris Bowman, a San Francisco political consultant and Log Cabin activist who attended the "Big Tent" event, argued that Republicans who are gay or lesbian won't abandon the president over the party's official stance on same-sex marriage because many agree strongly with Bush on issues ranging from the war on terrorism to taxes.

    Still, the tough rhetoric from the gay Republican group Sunday followed Vice President Dick Cheney's comments this past week that split with Bush on the need for a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage. Cheney, for the first time, publicly acknowledged that his daughter, Mary, is lesbian. The vice president, who had expressed support for Bush's endorsement of a same-sex marriage ban, said the issue of such relationships would be better left to the states, a view he first expressed during the 2000 campaign.

    Cheney's statements, while drawing support from Log Cabin Republicans, were the focus of criticism from other gay activists.

    "Talk about a flip-flopper," said Gloria Nieto, co-chair of the gay and lesbian caucus for the Democratic National Committee. "He was totally supporting the (president's position) and now they want it both ways.

    "They're trying to go back to their compassionate conservative message, and it's all about talk versus deed," said Nieto, who married her longtime partner in Massachusetts last month.

    Carl Schmid, a prominent Log Cabin activist, contends Democratic nominee John Kerry is little better, having endorsed Missouri's constitutional amendment. That measure bans same-sex marriage and makes no allowance for civil unions, which Kerry had previously insisted was a necessary alternative to any measure banning marriage.

    Despite their anger, the Log Cabin Republicans may have one thing in common with evangelical Christian leaders as this convention convenes -- both are absent from the roster of prime-time speakers.The Rev. Lou Sheldon, who heads the Traditional Values Coalition, said he was confident about the party's convention, and its platform.

    The conservative minister said evangelicals believe the party is united about issues that matter such as same-sex marriage, stem-cell research and abortion.

    And, they also have something to celebrate as Bush again receives his party's nomination, Sheldon said. "Our leader is one of us.''
     
  8. Fatty FatBastard

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    Gay republicans. Huh. Well, Bush just lost that huge constituency.
     
  9. outlaw

    outlaw Member

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    the Log Cabiners claim 1 million gays voted for Bush in 2000 nationwide and 60,000 in Florida alone. Considering how close that election was and this one will be, you don't need to lose a huge constituency to lose an election.
     
  10. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    see kerry, john and vets, vietnam.
     
  11. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Contributing Member

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    See Bush, George W. and middle class, America.
     
  12. Fegwu

    Fegwu Contributing Member

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    How can a gay person be Republican?

    Anyway, I think we need a truly solid third party that will carter to Christians alone.

    Christians like myself need to at least have another option other than the two we have now.
     
  13. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

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    And today!

    Now that's a turn around! Which is it?

    A great quote from the Kerry campaign.

     
  14. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    cnn's refusing to run the logcabin ad:

    http://boifromtroy.com/archives/002848.php

    --
    Cable news channel CNN is refusing to air the new "Hopes not fears" ad by the Log Cabin Republicans because images in the ad, such as pictures of Jerry Falwell, Senator Rick Santorum and the Rev. Fred Phelps holding a sign that says "God Hates Fags" are "too controversial":

    "We are deeply disappointed that CNN has refused our voices the opportunity to be heard. Last week we told the Republican Party that you cannot sugarcoat the vicious and mean-spirited platform, today we want CNN to know that you cannot sugarcoat the politics of fear and intolerance that lead to hate," said Log Cabin Executive Director Patrick Guerriero.

    Perhaps "CNN Hates Fags" would be a better message if the network refuses to let gay Republicans speak out for tolerance from the Party. If you agree this is wrong, you can call CNN at 404-827-1700 and ask to be transferred to the advertising department to express your thoughts.
     
  15. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Contributing Member

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    basso....is FAUX News running the ad?
     
  16. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    ocun idee...
     

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