Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!
ROCKETS GAMEDAY
Will facing a tanking team help? Rockets in Memphis Friday night to face the Grizzlies. Come join Ben & Dave for live reaction in postgame!

LIVE! ClutchFans on YouTube

Welcome ClutchFans Live

George Karl and Ray Allen come very close to calling the NBA playoffs rigged...

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Dr of Dunk, May 31, 2001.

Page 1 of 2

Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

Joined:

Aug 27, 1999

Messages:

47,237

Likes Received:

34,617

Check out the following article from Chris Sheridan and the Associated Press. Allen seems to imply that there is some favoritism from David "Purbis" Stern himself during games. :

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2001/05/31/sports1924EDT0494.DTL

---------------------------

(05-31) 16:24 PDT MILWAUKEE (AP) --

Stopping just short of alleging an outright anti-Bucks conspiracy, Ray Allen said Thursday that the NBA would prefer to see the Philadelphia 76ers face the Los Angeles Lakers in the finals.

"I think there's no question about that. The league, as a marketing machine, the bottom line is about making money," Allen said. "It behooves everybody for the league to make more money, and the league knows that Philadelphia is going to make more money with L.A. that we would with L.A."

Coming off a crushing one-point Game 5 loss in which two flagrant fouls and a technical foul cost the Bucks dearly, Milwaukee now faces a must-win situation in Game 6 Friday night.

The 76ers lead the best-of-seven series 3-2, with the winner moving on to face the Los Angeles Lakers in the NBA Finals beginning next Wednesday.

The Bucks have complained about the officiating since Game 4, when they felt Glenn Robinson was fouled on a crucial possession late in the fourth quarter that turned into a breakaway layup for the 76ers.

In Game 5, Sam Cassell's technical foul and flagrant fouls on Robinson and Tim Thomas resulted in a five-point possession and two four-point possessions for Philadelphia, and the Bucks admitted that those three mistakes cost them the game.

But aside from what they felt was the questionable nature of those calls, the Bucks also had a problem with several other whistles -- touch fouls on Cassell and Ervin Johnson early in the game and a moving screen call on Jason Caffey late in the fourth quarter.

Cassell's complaining began in the first quarter when he pump-faked Allen Iverson off his feet and Iverson whacked him hard on the arm. No foul was called, even though the play happened directly in front of referee Ronnie Nunn.

"Nine times out of 10 when you have a referee you know there's no biases," Allen said. "But in the back of everybody's minds it's like Philadelphia and the MVP needs to play in the finals.

"I used to always think the series were fixed when I was in high school, then when I got to the NBA I said there's no way they could be fixed. But even last year against Indiana in Game 5 (of Milwaukee's first-round series) it seemed like everything went against us," Allen said.

The NBA assigns its veteran referees to work playoff games based upon merit. Different teams have complained throughout the years that superstars receive preferential treatment from the officials, and the Bucks are merely the latest upstarts to learn that playoff games at the end of May are often called differently than regular-season games.

Complaining about specific calls is one thing; alleging a conspiracy is another. And though nobody on the Bucks came right out and said it, all the questions about a conspiracy theory found a welcoming audience.

Allen said members of his family had told him that they were sitting across from NBA commissioner David Stern on Sunday and noticed him stand up to watch a replay after it appeared Allen got away with committing a foul against Iverson that wasn't called.

"He jumped up real mad like he was cheering for Philly," Allen said.

Bucks coach George Karl said conspiracy theories were "summer talk," although he claimed three other NBA coaches had called him after Game 5 to raise that very issue.

"Sam Cassell said that Kevin Garnett and Rod Strickland had called him, so it's out there," Karl said.

The NBA has always laughed off the charge, but conspiracy theorists often point to Game 7 of the 1993 Western Conference finals in making their case -- saying Phoenix got an inordinate number of calls against Seattle because the league wanted to see a Suns-Chicago Bulls final.

"Here was the scenario: A Barkley-Jordan final, and Barkley did a commercial for NBC three weeks before the finals -- and he told me about it. And then they shoot 67 free throws in the final game," said Karl, who coached the SuperSonics in that game.

There were 100 foul shots taken in that game, 64 by the Suns. Seattle was called for 38 personal fouls and had three players disqualified; Phoenix was whistled for 27 fouls and had no one foul out.

"So there's a little paranoia there, but tomorrow night that means nothing," Karl said. "The board room is behind closed doors in New York City, so no one's ever going to know.

NBA spokesman Brian McIntyre said the league had no comment on the Bucks remarks. Supervisor of officials Ed Rush did not return a phone call to his Phoenix office.

In the history of the NBA playoffs, teams that have taken a 3-2 lead in Game 5 have gone on to win the series 83 percent of the time.

One of the exceptions was this year's Bucks, who dropped three straight games to the Charlotte Hornets in the second round before coming back and winning Games 6 and 7.

The Bucks continue to defiantly insist they are the better team, and they believe they will win Games 6 and 7 if they continue to hold Iverson in check.

Iverson has shot just 33-for-120 (27 percent) from the field during the series as the Bucks have hugely overplayed him to his right, forcing Iverson to go to his left.

"In the Toronto series everybody said you had to double-team him, but have you seen him go left and score?" Allen asked. "That's all he wants to do is go right, and if he goes left he's going to jump back to the right.

"So he can't score going to his left unless he passes the ball, but if he goes right he's the biggest scoring threat in the world."

Only Game 6 will tell if that strategy will continue to work -- and whether people will continue to believe that an anti-Bucks conspiracy exists.

"I'm not alleging a conspiracy, I'm not getting caught up in anything that I think the league has going on or what they might want," Allen said. "I'm just saying if we control what we can control, we'll be in L.A. playing the Lakers.

"If we play like we're capable of playing and not let the referees have a hand in the outcome of the game, then we'll have nothing to worry about."

------------------
"Light travels faster than sound, so some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak." -- Brian Williams (now Bison Dele) commenting on Isiah Thomas.

#1 Dr of Dunk, May 31, 2001

Franchisedream Member

Joined:

May 30, 2001

Messages:

166

Likes Received:

0

It's no surprise that Nunn was the official who didn't give Sam the call.

------------------

#2 Franchisedream, May 31, 2001
PhiSlammaJamma Member

Joined:

Aug 29, 1999

Messages:

30,192

Likes Received:

8,182

I think the Bucks haven't gotten the calls, but they need to just shut up and play. Sometimes you've got to believe that you can overcome the odds even when they are against you. It's time to step up their game, not complain. The bucks need to win by 20 so the refs can't do anything. I do think Glenn Robinson should be going to the line more, but the truth is his shot is usually unblockable so he won't get a lot of fouls called. Neither did dream. It's the nature of the way they play offense.

------------------
humble, but hungry.

#3 PhiSlammaJamma, May 31, 2001
Franchisedream Member

Joined:

May 30, 2001

Messages:

166

Likes Received:

0

Phi, I agree with you. The calls have gone against them, but they should not dwell on it, and make it so the calls don't matter.

------------------

#4 Franchisedream, May 31, 2001
heypartner Member

Joined:

Oct 27, 1999

Messages:

64,118

Likes Received:

60,169

So much for Allen winning NBA Good Citizen award next year.

#5 heypartner, May 31, 2001
Puedlfor Member

Joined:

May 30, 2000

Messages:

5,973

Likes Received:

21

Whine, whine, whine.

Y'all have seen the same games I have, they just can't take the pressure of being in this situation. Ray Allen has been stifled, and they should stop b****ing about free-throws 'cause if you just take jumpers you will not go to the line.

The NBA isn't the one committing flagrant fouls down the stretch in a game, or throwing away the ball down the stretch, or blowing gimme jumpers - its the Bucks.

And Phoenix beat Seattle in that game 6 because Charles Barkely annihilated Kemp in game 6, dropped 50-20 on him.

------------------
This space currently being renovated. We apologize for the inconvenience.

#6 Puedlfor, May 31, 2001
Francis3 Member

Joined:

Mar 29, 1999

Messages:

3,640

Likes Received:

4

Im glad the Bucks said this. It needed to be said because its really obvious the nba games are fixed. The lakers always have gotten the calls , because stern wants lakers in the finals. Sixers are getting all the calls in this series. Bucks I think will force it to game 7 and u know what, they are going to win game 7. Bucks vs Lakers. Not even stern can make the sixers advance by cheating.

GO BUCKS U ****S!

------------------
"Break off the block like Maurice Green" --- Steve Francis

President of the Moochie Norris fan club.

#7 Francis3, Jun 1, 2001

Band Geek Mobster Member

Joined:

Dec 1, 2000

Messages:

6,019

Likes Received:

18

The Bucks are whiney b****es.

------------------
I don't want to waste my time
And become a casualty of society.
I'll never fall in line
Become a victim of your conformity and back down.

#8 Band Geek Mobster, Jun 1, 2001
gr8-1 Member

Joined:

Oct 5, 1999

Messages:

7,918

Likes Received:

4

I think it's plausible. I don't want to harp on the lotto being rigged, but ya never know.

------------------
"norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."

#9 gr8-1, Jun 1, 2001
SuperS32 Member

Joined:

Jul 4, 2000

Messages:

928

Likes Received:

26

If that's true- then why the heck did the Rockets win the championship in 93'-94' instead of the Knicks? Although last year's game 7 Western Conference Finals was a bit mysterious, especially when it was a 2pt Laker lead and Fox purposely fouled Steve Smith but the refs didn't call it.

------------------
President of the Pete Chilcutt Fan Club.

#10 SuperS32, Jun 1, 2001
Almu Member

Joined:

Feb 14, 1999

Messages:

2,387

Likes Received:

40

O God. Here we go.

Maybe if the Bucks would go closer than 12 feet of the basket, they would get some calls too!!! They just shoot freaking jumpers! What do they expect?!

You know what? I do see a trend!

Have you noticed that the Pacers, the Bucks, and the other teams who b**** about getting no calls have NO INTERIOR TOUGHNESS WHATSOEVER?!?! Indy finally got some big boys and you will see them get tough and the b****in will stop.

Notice the so called "evil empire big market teams" have players that don't mind mixing it up? I wonder why the Spurs didn't b**** about the refs? They are a tiny, weeny, small market city, aren't they? And Philly is not a big, bad market and they got their MVP on crutches, getting beat the f**k down on every layup and are they b****ing about that? He gets elbowed right in the mouth on national television and did he go on the post game and complain and cry like a biaaatch about that? If everything was rigged why do the players play and people that think its rigged continue to watch, root, buy player t-shirts and post on this board? Why waste your time? Lets all just buy Laker, Knick and Bulls stuff and hope that your neighbor doesn't have the same New York Knicks coaster as you do!

I just wish in my youth (I am 30 in two weeks so the end is near)that I would have played with some b****y, whiny player who whined when I snatched a rebound from him and knocked him down. I could see that "accidental" elbow accidentally giving him something to cry about.

(Sorry for the cursing but damnit, I am tired of all this whining. They don't make players like they use to, I tell you.)

------------------
Sleepless in the Bronx

[This message has been edited by Almu (edited June 01, 2001).]

#11 Almu, Jun 1, 2001
University Blue Member

Joined:

Oct 20, 1999

Messages:

1,657

Likes Received:

12

Prediction: In the next game, there will (more) fouls called against Ray-"I-am-so-open-on-jump-shots-because-I-dislodge-with-my-strong-arm."-Allen.

With that said, I still hope Milwaukee wins the series. If nothing else, Karl would have better responses to Jackson's idiotic psycho-mumbo-jumble.

...

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,
Schlameal Schlamazel Hazzen Pfeffer Incorporated
They're gonna do it.
Give them a chance, they'll take it.
Read them the rules, they'll break it.
They're gonna make their dreams come true.
Doin' it their way.
Nothing's gonna turn them back now.
Straight ahead and on the track now.
They're gonna make their dreams come true.
Doin' it their way.
There's nothing they won't try.
Never heard the word impossible.
This time there's no stoppin' them.
They're gonna do it.
On your mark get set and go now.
Got a dream and we just know now.
They're gonna make that dream come true.
And they'll do it their way.
Yes their way.
Make all their dreams come true.
And they'll do it their way.
Yes their way.
Make all their dreams come true.
For <font color=darkblue>University Blue</font>.

------------------

#12 University Blue, Jun 1, 2001
R0ckets03 Member

Joined:

Nov 11, 1999

Messages:

16,326

Likes Received:

2,043

SFR is right. Just because you dont go inside that much does not mean you are not fouled. It is not even that. Its the other things Philly does. They are an Eastern Conference version of Jazz. They get away with a lot of dirty stuff and then have the balls to cry like a bunch of b****es when they are even called for one foul. Iverson is the biggest flopper since Vlade and Stockton!

GO BUCKS!!!!!!!

------------------

#13 R0ckets03, Jun 1, 2001

Toast Member

Joined:

Feb 21, 2001

Messages:

3,755

Likes Received:

10

Yeah, the 76ers ARE like the Eastern Conference Jazz. BUT at the same time, I saw Cassell do a flop or two to get an offensive foul called.

------------------
Founding Father of the
Refs Suck Club

#14 Toast, Jun 1, 2001
ZRB Member

Joined:

Jul 31, 2000

Messages:

6,818

Likes Received:

4

The NBA does not fix games, but I do think that the refs show favoritism towards certain teams and players when there are questionable calls.

For example:

Kobe runs over Sam Mack in a one point game. Could be a block or a charge. The refs are undecided, so they give the call to the big market and star player- Kobe.

Problem is, there are so many undecided calls, that it looks like games are being fixed.

Solution? Two Words:

INSTANT REPLAY

------------------
The Protrolls.com message boards!

Protrolls.com!

And his ghost can be heard as you pass by that billabong: "All I did was steal a bloody sheep!"

#15 ZRB, Jun 1, 2001
Puedlfor Member

Joined:

May 30, 2000

Messages:

5,973

Likes Received:

21

I think you give the refs too much credit.

In the split second that it takes to make that call, do you really think that they have time to go through all the ramifications, economic and otherwise, of calling it either a charge or a block?

------------------
This space currently being renovated. We apologize for the inconvenience.

#16 Puedlfor, Jun 1, 2001
ZRB Member

Joined:

Jul 31, 2000

Messages:

6,818

Likes Received:

4

Did you see game one of the 1999 playoffs between the Lakers and Rockets? That was a questionable call, and it went the Lakers' way.

------------------
The Protrolls.com message boards!

Protrolls.com!

And his ghost can be heard as you pass by that billabong: "All I did was steal a bloody sheep!"

#17 ZRB, Jun 1, 2001
CriscoKidd Member

Joined:

Oct 18, 1999

Messages:

9,303

Likes Received:

546

instant replay is a joke. It will never happen in the NBA, and it never should.

------------------
snap crackle pop

#18 CriscoKidd, Jun 1, 2001

Puedlfor Member

Joined:

May 30, 2000

Messages:

5,973

Likes Received:

21

And it would have been a questionable call had it gone the Rockets way - questionable calls are like that.

Just because calls go against you does not mean it was because of the fact that the Lakers play in a larger market, or that Bryant was a star player, just that the refs thought it was a block.

Maybe it was a block, Maybe the refs just ****ed up. It happens. But it doesn't mean that they are trying to advance the Lakers to get greater revenue for the league.

Besides, if it really was like that, who do you think the league would rather promote : Ray Allen , or Allen Iverson?

------------------
This space currently being renovated. We apologize for the inconvenience.

[This message has been edited by Puedlfor (edited June 01, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Puedlfor (edited June 01, 2001).]

#19 Puedlfor, Jun 1, 2001
TheFreak Member

Joined:

Feb 18, 1999

Messages:

18,442

Likes Received:

3,574

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Maybe it was a block, Maybe the refs just ****ed up. It happens. But it doesn't mean that they are trying to advance the Lakers to get greater revenue for the league.</font>
Click to expand...

Does it really matter what the intent is? It still happens. Who got more calls, Larry Bird or Allan Leavell? What about Jordan, or Buck Johnson? The marquee players get the calls. There are some great players, who were not "marquee", who never got the same treatment from the refs. Kobe Bryant gets far more calls compared to what Hakeem ever got. The net result is teams like the Sixers, who are more marketable than the Bucks, get better treatment from the refs. Maybe it's not "fixed", but it still happens. You'd have to be extremely naive to believe otherwise.

[This message has been edited by TheFreak (edited June 02, 2001).]

#20 TheFreak, Jun 1, 2001

(You must log in or sign up to post here.)

Page 1 of 2

Share This Page