Serious question about why Jordan is so revered

That's the tricky thing when having a convo with those who have been convinced that Jordan is the media hyped GOAT, because he was always individually dominant day 1 rookie yr when he avg almost 30ppg but took him 7 yrs to win first ring, where most act like he only played 6 seasons so they mention his 666 Finals status while dismissing his other 9 seasons where he didn't win

And even early when he got swept in postseason Bird still called him God disguised as Jordan or something of that nature, which proves his solo dominance but didn't translate which is why some back then didn't really think a volume scoring ball hog could lead a team to a title until he did, which then the narrative swung in his favor 10 fold

So when the team went thru the growing pains and finally broke thru they ran the 90's along with the Rockets, then the Spurs kicked off the new era 1999 (to 09')and ran it with the Lakers with the Celtics n Heat squeezing in a ship

 

Right player, right person, right time. The league was ready to go global, MJ was one of the most marketable sports figures ever, and he had a dominant run in the NBA. Sprinkle in the fact that he landed in a major city (imagine MJ in Oklahoma City), had all of the alpha male/macho characteristics that men look up to, and the fact that he played before the era of social media and youtube.

I do not revere MJ, but there will never be another like him. Impossible to replicate those circumstances.

 

Jordan was the first guy who wasn't a big man to win multiple championships as the team's best player. He did it with pullup and turnaround jumpers instead of a hook shot or drive and dish offenses. He made shorter people believe they could be good at basketball. In doing so, he made the sport a worldwide game.

Tyson was probably the better fighter than Ali, but Ali was the best ever because of what he did for the sport. Same argument could be made for Babe Ruth vs Ken Griffey ect.

No doubt Cartwright was a good player, but compating him to the Celtics bigs would be like comparing Raef Lafrentz to Kevin Garnett.

 

I wasn't trying to compare Cartwright to anybody, you were trying to belittle him and I pointed out he put up 20ppg and other seasons of 17/18ppg before he teamed up with Jordan and his focus became more defensive/rebounding approach

 

Okay. You want to look back at history and penalize Jordan for being too young with no help facing the in prime Celtics universally seen as one of the goat teams. Got it.
You also want to penalize him for not facing the Lakers when they were in their prime in another conference and Mike was young while they had 3-4 HOfers?
Or do you want to penalize MJ for facing the Lakers in the Finals without Kareem who had retired at 41 several years prior? So you would think it would have been better for his legacy to say he beat the Lakers with a 43 year old Kareem putting up like 8ppg, or you would still penalize him and say he just beat the Lakers when they were old just like you do with the Pistons. Every Finals opponent Jordan faced was the favorite to get out of the West. As such, the 91 Lakers were in the Finals for a reason. Magic was the MVP the season BEFORE, and runner up to Mike in 91. Worthy still in his peak leading the team in scoring. They swept Hakeem, gentlemen's swept Run TMC and beat the 63 win Blazers in 6, the Blazers were defending WC champs and would be in the Finals again the next year. The Lakers even won game 1 of the Finals, Jordans buzzer beater going all the way in and coming back out. Worthy hurt his ankle, but he played-you don't penalize LeBron for beating the 73 win Warriors with Steph playing through injury, their starting C injured, Iggy playing through injury and Draymond suspended for a game do you? Of course you don't.

The Pistons were 1 game away, no mere points away from being 3 peat champs the years they beat Michael without another all star. They were champs the season before Mike and a finally developed into a 1st time All-Star Scottie swept them in the ECF as the Pistons tried to get to the Finals for the 4th straight year, but now they're too old? In 1990, they swept the first round. gentleman's swept the 2nd round and the NBA Finals. The only team who gave them problems was Michael without another all star and that's when game 7 Pippen migraine game happened. The year before? The Pistons swept every round except the ECF. Their only 2 losses was to Michael Jordan by himself as Pippen was still not who you know him as averaging 9 and 7, Grant 9 and 9. Mike was starting to get SOME support, but make no mistake he was on year 5 of doing it without all star support against stacked HOF goat teams.
Oh and the old Kareem you wanted Jordan to face? The last year of his NBA career, the Lakers still got to the Finals(sweeping through the West) with him at 41 averaging what? 10ppg? Yeah, that's how good Magic and Worthy duo was...and...they got swept out of the building by the Bad Boys and ended Kareems career in the Finals. The very same Bad Boys that only lost 2 that entire playoff run-both to Michael Jordan with no all stars. Jordan averaged 30,5.5,6.5,2 ...his next best scorer was Craig Hodges with 12ppg.

Call his opponents old all you want-he still won. LeBron lost to the actual old Spurs with HOF teammates. You call late 20s and early 30 year olds old to fit your narrative, but Bron with HOFers needed a bail out to win 1 and lose in 5 to 37 year old Duncan, 36 year old Manu and 31 year old TP and Diaw, and using a 22 year old Kawhi who averged 12.8ppg be the excuse why they were too good for LeBron with HOFers to beat. You know the Spurs played like a 90s team too right?

Let's talk about the misinformation that's spread like wildfire that Mike didn't beat them until they were old. Isiah was actually 29. Dumars was hitting his prime at 27. Rodman hitting his prime at 29 winning his 2nd DPOTY that year, and his only 2 all star games came in 90 and the next year in 92. Aguirre was 31. Laimber 33, Microware 34. Salley was 26 and Edwards was 35. A far cry from "old."

Let's compare that to the Pistons Lebron is applauded for beating shall we? The Pistons Mike beat were the same near 3 peat champs with their HOF coach. Fully in tact defending champs. The team LeBron is applauded for beating is done so with an underlying basically, lie, that he beat the Bad Boys 2.0. Those Pistons no longer had their anchor and 4x DPOY Ben Wallace. Those Pistons no longer had their HOF coach they won their ring with-Larry Brown. Instead they replace Wallace with a broken down over the hill CWebb and McDyess who were role players at best by then. Sheed was 32, 3 years older than Rodman. Billups was 30, a year older than Zeke. Rip was 28, a year older than Dumars. Broken down Cwebb was the same age as Laimbeer. Broken down McDyess a year older than Aguirre. Salley and Prince the same age.

If Mike beat the Bad Boys without Rodman and Chuck Daly gone-you would penalize him for that. Worse so if all he had to do was beat 2 injured 41 win teams in the first 2 rounds. If Cleveland was in the East that year, they would have been the 6th seed and had a 1st round meeting and sweep against the Spurs. That's Mike in his youth in the stacked super top heavy EAST. As rookie with coke heads(Orlando was a g, though and his only scoring help even on cocaine)-faced in the first round the defensive juggernaut 59 win Bucks with 2dpoty star Moncrief- 1983 ROY and up and coming superstar and already an all star Terry Cummings who is a forgotten beast, Pressely a defensive stud, solid role players, HOF coach Don Nelson and a young future 2x 6th man of the year in Ricky Pierce. It was a best of 5 series back then, so Mike never had a chance to do pull off any come backs. He won game 3 to keep his team alive with 35/8/7/4/1. Every loss was very close. Fact is Bucks had no reason to struggle against a rookie Mike with no help outside of Orlando Woolridge. How about the Celtics in their prime b2b years in a best of 5 with no help outside of a rookie Oakley added to 2nd and 3rd year Mike and Woolridge vs 4 HOFers. Jordan averaged 43.7ppg on 50% 6.3rpg,5.7apg,over 2 steals and 1 block including the record 63 points that still wasn't enough to beat them. Orlando helped with 21ppg on 40%. 36,7,6,2,2 but on poor efficiency for Mike the next year.

Essentially-you want, no, you NEED to find reasons why Mike is just myth and your boy couldn't possibly be better than him. You can't believe someone could be such a tier above the greatest of your generation so you need to find ways to knock him down while at the same time giving pass to far worse dings on their resume your boy has. You're right. Zero ****s are given about Bronsexuals reality b/c it isn't real life.

The fact is Michael Jordan had 1 single all-star teammate his entire career to win(he had no all star teammates in 91). That was Scottie Pippen. He didn't team up when he met adversity. He didnt run for greener pastures. When he faced juggernauts, he faced them in his own conference, while LeBron benefitted from a historically weak conference and met his sweep in the Finals instead-until LeBron couldn't duplicate that and ran to change NBA history with his super team ups.

There's always been winners and losers. Not participation awards. As the years go on-you and young kids look back on Jordans Finals competition, you believe it's weak. Mostly because you don't recognize the all stars and high level role players outside of the famous names. That's the difference between a winner and runner up. Runner ups are forgotten meanwhile the champs have their role players inflated(ive had lebron fans tell me lebron never had superstars like Kukoc and Kerr!). You'll see in several decades when the losers of your generation are dissed and devalued and you try and tell them how good they actually were. Look how kids talk about the Jazz. "Old" even though the Bulls were the oldest team at the time. "Slow" full of "white boys." Yet those old slow Jazz handed Shaqs Lakers a gentlemens sweep, beat our big 3 HOFers in 6 to get to the 97 Finals. In 98? They beat our big 3 HOFers in the first round(chuck got hurt after we were up), then gentlemens swept Duncan and Robinson Spurs, then SWEPT Shaq with 3 all stars(NVE,Eddie, Kobe were all all stars with Shaq that year). Yeah, that was a bum ass Jazz team that only won 3x 60+ win seasons in the decade and on pace for a 4th in the lockout season. You could guarantee 55-60+ wins out of them the entire decade- but let me guess-only b/c they faced plumbers?

You will find a lot of issues with your generations arguments about Jordans competition. On the one hand-they'll say Jordan's East was as weak as LeBrons-and the West was the real powerhouse conference-and yet at the same time constantly diss the West champ Jordan faced in the Finals as weak. This shows constant goal post moving as the only strategy along with the tons and tons of misinformation passed as fact on the internet.

I hope that was a serious enough answer for your serious question.

 

And let say this one last thing about the 90s. If there's a knock on it, is that stars had short lived primes and too many got injured in their primes or before they really took off or were able to contribute as older players. You've got T-Mac, Yao, Jay Will, BRoy, Drose, Boogie etc so it's in every decade, really.

Michael was actually pissed Magic had to retire. He expected to face Magic every year in the Finals, but let's be real here. Magic was drafted to a team with another GOAT and then teamed with Worthy and multiple all stars. In 92, Magic was already out, but Chuck was nearly traded to the Lakers. He says he was told the deal was done and got drunk and partied-then later the Sixers turned around and turned it down and Chuck played drunk that night, but imagining Chuck/Magic/Worthy is fine on paper-but they're not beating the Bulls. The Suns were deeper with Chuck and KJ was a beast. Doesn't matter-the Lakers trade never happened.

Magic-HIV-returned for 96 end of season and playoffs as a PF way overweight but still a baller-lost to our Rockets in the 1st round and retired for good. Not Jordans fault-90s Lakers pre Shaq were not good. Doubtful Magic without Worthy even gets to the Finals again.
Worthy- Played his last season off the bench at 32, although he had knee pain-he retired at 32 b/c the Lakers had no hopes of winning another title. Ring chasing was beneath him, but he could have easily joined a contender while Jordan was retired.

Bird- Even if he didn't bust his back up paving his ma's driveway, he got surgery on both of his Achilles and he was done as an athlete. He still showed flashes even at half speed, but he couldn't carry the C's far so older Bird likely isn't a problem for MJ.
McHale- Ruined himself playing through injuries in the 80s. Not Jordans fault. Still played until 93 and retired at 35. Not a problem for the Bulls.
Bias - Too many what ifs. Just because he was a stud in college doesn't mean he was a guarantee to replace McHale/Parish front line and Bird and Bias would go on to rival MJ and Scottie for years.
Lewis- Collapsed and died on the court. He was a good role player. On paper the Celtics look nice, but still not enough for the Bulls imho.

Isiah Thomas- Tore his Achilles in 94 then retired at 32. He was still an all star the previous seasons-Lost in the 1st round and missed the playoffs his last year. Dumars was in his prime still. GHill comes in 95, and while he was very good-i don't think a rookie GHill, Dumars in his peak with a 33 year old Zeke is going to trouble the Bulls.

Terry Cummings- Destroyed his knee in a pickup game summer of 92. Maybe David Robinson with healthy Cummings make more noise? He was already 30.
Alvin Robertson- 4x All star, DPOTY, 6x all defense, got hurt at 30 and was done, but was already transitioning into role player without scoring by then. If he stayed in SA with Robinson and healthy Cummings-maybe they can make the Finals, but Alvin left the Spurs in 89 so its more what ifs...

Arvydas Sabonis- He couldn't come to the NBA in his prime. Could he have helped Portland vs the Lakers in 91 WCF and vs the Bulls 92? On paper, that's what they tell you. The truth is, yes Sabonis was a 7'4 more athletic Jokic. That was the monster in 86, but in 87 he tore his Achilles tendon, twice, the 2nd time during healing. BUT, he rushed back and stil beat TEAM USA and dominated a young David Robinson to win gold in 88! He did, but he was done athletically after that. Playing through those injuries ruined him and he was never the same and a much slower and heavier version of himself played in the NBA years later, but he post injuries and a declining Clyde would be no threat to the Bulls.

Penny Hardaway- Got his chance in the Finals with Shaq. Got swept. Jordan swept a healthy Penny and Shaq. Shaq left pre injured Penny so Penny was on his own carrying a mediocre Orlando team when he got hurt at 26. He played decently for 2 seasons but he couldn't stay healthy and he was clearly done with his explosion. Watch the 98 all star game which Penny came back from injury to play in and finish the season-he was slow and limpy. Either way, if healthy-the Magic with just Penny aint getting the Bulls way.

Grant Hill- Fully healthy until he played on his injured ankle in 00 playoffs. Mike was already retired and Grant Hill's Pistons couldn't do anything vs Jordans Bulls.

Vin Baker- 4x All Star, Jordans last season was also Bakers last healthy all star season. Vin and GP won 61 games, they lost in 5 to Shaq with 3 all stars-the same Lakers team that the old Jazz would sweep badly.

Larry Johnson- Hurt his back in 93-94 at 24 years old-he was a huge rising star people dont talk about on the level of Penny and GHill but he was up there. Still put up 2 all star level season in 95 and 96 before going to NY and helping them get to the 99 Finals, but his stats in NY are that of a role player. Zero effect on Jordans legacy.

Mark Price/Brad Daughtery- Price was 29 years old his last healthy season in 94, same season Brad hurt his back at 28 causing him to retire. He only played 50 games that year and missed the playoffs but the Bulls without Jordan swept Price and a good team. A healthy Cavs may make noise in 94 and 95 while Jordan retired and returned in 95-but Mike lost in 95 to Orlando anyway so i don't see how this effects Mike's legacy. They aren't good enough by 96-98.
Terrell Brandon- He never turns into an All Star unless Mark Price gets injured. 2x All star with about 4 all star worthy seasons. Injured a couple times, but it was the 01-02 season with KG where the knee caused him to retire at 32, 30 being his last good season. They did anything together and Jordan is a 40 year old on the Wizards by then.

Shawn Kemp- Showed up after 99 lockout infamously overweight b/c he never expected to play-never recovered to all star level. His peak was 96, Bulls beat him and GP healthy. On the Cavs by Jordans last season and lost to the Pacers 1-3. Doesn't effect MJ's legacy.

Antonio McDyess- Stud future star-predecessor to Amare. Last healthy season at 26 in 01 long after Jordan retired. Doesn't effect MJ's legacy.

Now look at the other legacies
T-Mac + Yao- directly effects Kobe's legacy and possibly LeBrons. Not in 07- Jazz won in 7 plain and simple, but Kobe needed 7 to beat the Rockets with Yao getting hurt in the series-T-Mac being out as well. If they're healthy, and go to the Finals through Denver and easily beat Orlando imo or if not Dwight wins-that's another star that gets a ring in LeBrons era beating LeBron to get it + Artest never joins Kobe likely staying with the Rockets with an in prime Yao and T-Mac during the years LeBron couldn't get through Boston.

Derrick Rose- directly impacts LeBron's legacy. He was 23 years old and an MVP already when he went down in the 12 playoffs. They won game 1 that Rose played in and got hurt in. Celtics needed 7 games to beat those Sixers. Heat needed 7 to beat the Celtics. A healthy DRose Bulls, could have knocked any of them out. Not only that, Jimmy Buckets was on the bench as a young player at that time and would blossom into an All Stat in the coming years. Maybe he never leaves if DRose is still healthy and now DRose has a legit stud #2 next to him. Yeah...DRose impacts LeBron for sure.

 

I answered all your serious questions which clearly show intent no matter what you now say. You are questioning his legitimacy in favor of LeBron. Spin it any way you want, but you are doing that and doing so in a way that's preposterous. Michael didn't beat the in prime show time Lakers? He was college and a rookie during that time. It's ludicrous. It's no different from saying well Bird and in prime Lakers never faced the 72 win Bulls! LeBron never beat the Shaq and Kobe Lakers! It's just random nonsense with mismatched timelines. You're seriously asking why Jordan is revered and then directly mention LeBron with clear intent to devalue Jordan's competition. I simply gave you facts on why they are separate legacies and as a typical Lebron fan, you'd rather ignore the facts with proper and legitimate context and continue believing YOUR reality with YOUR narratives using YOUR context or lack thereof.

 

Jordan and his Bulls never lost 3 games in a row from 91 to 98. He was the juggernaut. Not the Spurs Dynasty, not the Lakers dynasty, not even the KD and Steph Warriors managed that feat, not to mention they never 3 peated even once. Neither has LeBron with all of his super teams and GS wasn't in his way when he formed the Heatles. Him with DWade and Bosh losing to Dirk in 11 is like Jordan losing to Drexler or Chuck. Yeah-a monumental dent in his legacy. Just how easy do you think it is to repeat year-after year-after year x 2 with the biggest target on your back? There are more HOFers in the 90s despite all that got hurt or ended their career early and every one of them wanted to be the one to beat Michael Jordan.

I don't fault Bron for Ky and Love getting hurt in the Finals, i just realistically know that Warriors team was not losing either way and the 18 team needed a lot to go their way to beat the beat up Warriors who at FULL strength nearly had lostt to KD and Russ OKC too if it wasn't for Klay going super saiyan. If the 96 Bulls were down 1-3 in the ECF at full strength and then you told the 64 win Sonics that those Bulls after a grueling and tiring comeback would lose Luc Longley, their starting C, Kukoc their 6th man would have a bad back, and Jordan would be playing through a grade 2 MCL sprain and Dennis Rodman would be suspended for a game? I don't know if the Bulls can pull that win off, but they sure as hell aren't the 72 win Bulls under those circumstances and Shawn Kemp sure as **** is being laughed at if he calls himself the GOAT for that win. Lastly, LeBron stood in the corner nearly out of the camera view as he hid from the bright lights, letting Kyrie iso for the dagger. Bron kids compare that to Paxson and Kerrs game winners. They are not the same. Bron has made a living being shown as a clutch player when it's comfortable and the game is tied or he is up, but never did you see Michael not even being used as a decoy-but just hiding in the corner in the NBA finals close out game and then call himself the goat after that.

I do not make excuses for LeBron facing KD joined Warrors- #1 Because KD would never have done that if LeBron didn't do his Miami move first. Period. It's woe-is-me when it hurts Lebrons legacy, but haha if it hurts everyone elses legacy for Lebrons benefit to team up right?
#2 B/c our Houston Rockets didn't make any excuses. We had them down 3-2. This supposed greatest team ever built that Lebron ran into nearly lost to the supposed losers James Harden and Chris Paul who had to finish the series off without CP3. We don't have excuses. Only LeBron and his fans do because you know what? If CP3 is healthy and we pull off that upset-the next excuse for LeBron losing is LeBron lost b/c he ran into the 65 win Rockets with 2 HOFers and Jordan never faced such a juggernaut. Every flip flop to benefit Lebrons legacy and every flip flop narrative to hurt MJ or Kobes or anyone who is in Brons way right?
Except then that also hurts LeBrons historic comeback where he needed so many circumstance to beat that beat up Warriors team while James and CP beat a fully healthy Warriors with KD...huh...i guess Harden the GOAT then? That one right there would have made him the greatest player of all time according to LeBrons own mind.
#3- KD cooked LeBron. 1 on 1. KD didn't need Steph or Klay-he was giving leBron the business head to head and earned his 2x FMVP, but LeBron gets the excuse and KD gets called a snake.

I for one do not fault LeBron for losing in 07. I simply tame the narrative that Lebron carried bums to the Finals at such a young age while Jordan was "1-9" without Pippen. Factual statements without context. The trash competition LeBron faced to get there and get swept by a far inferior Spurs team than the Celtics team, but worse than anything is Michael showed out in those loses-LeBron gets all the praise for getting there at his age, but all the excuses that he was too young for getting swept and actually playing disgusting for a legend. Magic as a rookie won FMVP and played the game of his life with Kareem out to win. Magic was 20 years old. Bird as a 23 year old rookie turned around a 20 win C's team and took them to the ECF. Won it all the next year as a 24 year old. Kareem won a championship and FMVP as a 2nd year 23 year old. It's NOT that it's not impressive to be young and successful-it's that it's been done before, but only LeBron got there through trash 40 win teams and laid a massive egg in the Finals. Followed that up with losing to Dwight's Magic, but if he got through, he would have lost to Kobes Lakers and yall would say well he had to face Kobe and Jordan didn't-except young all star Kobe with prime Shaq and 2 other all stars was getting swept by the old Jazz. So where LeBron let everyone down in giving the world a Kobe/Bron Finals, Mike gave the world a MJ vs Magic Finals, and he waited for Shaq and Kobe who failed to do it.

LeBron won bronze medal and was about to finish runner up again until Kobe took over in the 4th qtr to bring home the gold. What were the excuses when LeBron won bronze? He was just a kid. Just a kid? The USA ONLY sent kids to the Olympics until 92! They were younger than LeBron. That includes the 84 gold medal team led by Michael Jordan before he ever set foot on an NBA court. Mike and Kobe are undefeated in international play. College Mike even went undefeated in 8 full games vs NBA All Stars with his 84 Olympic team. 8-0 vs in prime stars that were trying to win.

There's no excuses needed for the loses, but context shows those loses are not =to being favored and losing. Mike lost in 95. The context is easily that he only returned for the 17 finals games before the playoffs(and Scottie barely had them around .500 ball too) after 1.75 season retired playing baseball before the baseball lockout. His efficiency, his body, and his stamina clearly didn't look like peak Mike, but it's fine. He took the loss to the Shaq and Penny Magic and told them he'd see them next year and the rest is history. Even his losses have been to great teams with all time greats outside of his rookie year vs the Bucks who were a great team and Moncrief is a HOFer but not a top 20 guy like Bird, Isiah and Shaq and Penny would have been. LeBron has lost to 37 year old Duncan and 22 year old Kawhi while Bron was in his prime. LeBron has lost to Dwight Howard while LeBron was in his prime. Lebron has played his twilight years with a monster all time great in AD while also benefitting from an NBA with increasing pace and possessions and lack of defensive allowed catered to offense. Lebrons stats look impressive and yet so do 60 of his peers averaging over 20, and how many average over 30? 6 or 7? I guess without context Old Mike on the worst team in the NBA was trash if you compare stats without context, but then when you look at context, it was a slow grueling pace with far fewer possessions and high level defense and MJ had few peers getting numbers like him.

Context always matters, but excuses are not needed. The constant narrative shifting to hurt someone else and benefit your boy are see through and easily cut down.

 

My bad i kept referring to the 18 Cavs-obviously i meant the 16 Cavs.

 

You get mad why LeBron can't so easily be gifted GOAT title, while his resume clearly has trouble matching up to Kareem or Magic and the only reason he's given above Bird is longevity and + a fluke title and FMVP. The easiest championship ever won with a monster AD who got months rest leading up to it when he rarely gets to finish seasons healthy. No other star has ever benefited from such a fluke asterisk championship(while trying to tell us it was the hardest ever and demanded his damn respect like some pathetic drama queen), otherwise yall are trying to tell us LeBron with his 3FMVP and 3 rings with 6 losses is better than Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Kobe, and Duncan. His career can be picked apart top to bottom, man. I can do similar with Kareem, Magic and to a smaller extent Shaq, Kobe and Duncan, but none more so than leBron who if he played under other league rules-may be a ringless great like Karl Malone or Charles Barkley without the team ups, at least until he was in his mid 30s and ring chased then..which i guess is fine for dudes in the top 20, but not anyone trying to call themselves the greatest ever.

 

I think the 2015 warriors would like a word with you about the easiest title ever, considering every single team they played was missing their starting PG and most were missing at least one other started, including the final 2 rounds where the rockets/cavs didn't have their PG or PF, who happen to match the warriors best 2 players.

For the record, i consider the bubble as nothing, completely meaningless

 

He forgot the best

 

Tracy McGrady ?
@Jontro
@J.R.

 

He's simply the greatest player to ever put on a pair of shoes. He did everything.

 

Jordan was healthy and in game shape for the 1995 playoffs and lost to the Magic. I agree with the rest of what you wrote.

 

timely retirement helped
and the cultural impact he made with Nike can't be understated
im not saying he was lucky... the man belongs in that GOAT category
it really was a right time and right place scenario for a player so dominant

 

Jordan could channel the nutcase known as Dennis Rodman to multiple championships, and Lebron had no hope in **** in controlling Kyrie. Simple as that.

 

Wrong. It's Jeremy Lin