Dream would turn Joker into a jump shooting big. Jokic could still impact the game with 20+ assists, but Dream would also punish him on offense. Jokic would be a traffic cone caught in the spin cycle who would probably find himself in early foul trouble with a guy like Dream.
You’re just valuing Hakeem’s skill more because it’s more aesthetically pleasing. Which I agree it is. Hakeem’s game was so smooth and genuinely beautiful to watch. But while I agree there’s a balance between efficiency numbers and eye test that we need to try to keep, higher skill will absolutely lead to a higher TS%.
I do think Hakeem was more skilled as a player - he had a million moves and a counter to each one and was brilliant at reading defenders to make the perfect counter for any easy bucket....but that's not a stat and thats my whole point. If someone wants work on their dribbling skills they might be given a number of drills to repeat daily until their ability to execute more complex dribbling skills improves - but using their TOs as a measure of their dribbling skills is only loosely related - it's why Kyrie can be the most skilled dribbler in the league but also can be a league leader in TOs. Measures of scoring and particularly scoring efficiency are only loosely related to offensive skills because as I stated before efficiency is also based on awareness statistically of where to take high value shots. If you tell a player to play one game with no awareness of efficiency and just uses their raw skills ONLY to show off their skills and then the next game you tell them you are going to measure their skills by TS% and then you explain to them in detail where they need to shoot from to raise their TS%, then low and behold that player will magically over night seem to demonstrate far better "skills" without ever picking up a basketball to practice new "skills" in between. I respect that we have a difference of opinion on Jokic v Hakeem, but the statement "higher skill will absolutely lead to a higher TS%" is simply not true - its a 'false cause' logical fallacy and is proven so by the multitude of reasons I have given. I'm not even arguing about Hakeem v Jokic - I'm just saying the way ya'll are trying to prove that is deeply flawed.
World doesn't revolve around you and Hakeem. People will have different opinions so man up and and stop being a pu*sy. Can you do that? Can you stop being a pu**y?
Jokic is a much superior passer, that's it. The thing about today's centers is that they are tought to shoot the three ball, whereas that was almost prohibited for a big man back in the early 90's and before. There's no doubt that Hakeem had the touch and skill to at least be a decent three point shooter had he actually practiced it. Also, people are being too dismissive about defense. We are told over and over that defense is all effort, and I don't think that's necessarily true especially for a big man. Timing a block shot is most definitely a skill.
I can't think of any scenario where anyone would select Jokic over Hakeem if given the choice of either.
I didn’t bring up the TS%, but I do think it’s a valid point to bring up. Maybe it’s more of a general statement, but I don’t think it’s crazy to say that more skill = more efficiency. Of course it’s not a black and white deal though I can agree with that. I don’t think I need efficiency numbers to argue Jokic over Hakeem. I watch the games and based off what I see I think Jokic affects the game more than any other big man we’ve ever seen.
This is a Rockets board you goofball. It revolves around the Rockets and former Rockets players. It doesnt revolve around you kissing Jokic's butt. I like him a lot and think he's a great player but I dont post nonsense threads on this board. So go to a Nuggets board, you will not be missed lmao.
I can’t remember if it was Doc Rivers on Bill Simmons podcast or Zach Lowe on his podcast today that said Jokic has Hakeem level footwork but he’s just not as fast.
Breh you can spot the fake rockets fans like vegans at a barbecue restaurant @J.R. @TimDuncanDonaut @RasaqBoi
You absolute sp*z this thread is already 19 pages and people praise Jokic not just me. Grow up you whinny little b*tch.
Same thing applies for you too. Man the f*ck up. What a bunch of whinny little tw*ts. Oh look at him he's praising some dude plays for another team i'm literally shaking rn lol.
I have a post right here saying that Jokic is an amazing talent. You just come off as a real c*nt so i told you rightfully so to get f'd. I stand by it reading what you said to other people on here. You should just see yourself out the exit door.
Quantity does not make quality. They can go and kiss Jokic's butt somewhere else too. And most people are discussing how asinine the thread is. Come on man, I admit I started out harshly here but there is no reason to talk like this. Get a grip.
As a guy who adores Hakeem and idolized him since the age of 8... Jokic will pass him up. Hakeem is a more complete player overall due to his defense but Jokic offensively is unparalleled as a big, and defensively he's underrated; he won't wow you with highlight blocks, but he knows how to stop drives just by virtue of using his body. Jokic has a ceiling that nobody wants to admit right now, particularly us Hakeem stans, but if he wins another ring or two, it will become clear. His 3-year run dating back to 20-21 is unparalleled by ANY big. I have been saying that he has quietly made history and in other fora have been mocked, but sometimes you just need to appreciate what's in front of your eyes (like with Miami Lebron or mid-decade Curry). It's legendary.
