My bad - apologies, I thought you were comparing them to each other but ultimately not a ridiculous reply because AGAIN, I think the larger point remains that comparing Jokic's TS% to his peers of his era can't possibly be the same as comparing Olajuwon's TS% to his peers of his era because teams weren't actively trying to build offenses around shooting efficiencies in Hakeem's era nor were players aware of and were trying to become more efficient from a number crunching perspective in that era. Again, true shooting is a metric - not a skill. You can improve your performance in a particular metric without specifically working on a skill at all. Ultimately awareness about the value of 3pt shots and free throws compared to mid range shots will help you improve your TS% without ever working on single 'basketball skill' - that's why comparing players/teams who had that awareness against players/teams who didn't have that awareness is going to throw a HUGE amount of noise in the system that makes the metric less useful. We are talking about Campbell's Law(and relatedly Goodhart's Law) and there are books written on the subject....and before you call me some metrics hater - you should reflect on why you don't seem to have awareness of the above. Metrics are highly useful and I use them daily in my professional life, but bad metrics or in this case, misused metrics are just as bad as "going with a gut feeling" because ultimately they are false equivalencies masquerading as evidence based proof. ...so respectfully, take your TS metric and shove it because in this case it's not helpful.
Not to mention that Hakeem played in an era where there was far more man-to-man defense being played. That's why his footwork was so devastating against other teams' big men. He was beautiful to watch one-on-one against other centers (just ask David Robinson). Bigs also weren't expected to have to come out and defend on the perimeter as much as they have to do today. Jokic, however, plays in a totally different era where zone defenses and small-ball 3pt offenses dominate. As a result, he's developed a different skill-set to meet the demands of the game he has to face. His approach to the game is unreal - he's always following the ball on defense in order to be in the right position while on offense, he can facilitate by bringing the ball up the court, make incredible passes to teammates and even hit 3pt shots. Both possess unique skillsets that fit the era they are/were playing.
I don't care what you call it. Hakeem is better than Jokic, overall. Jokic never had to back down..the game is different. Hakeem could play Jokic's game right now...I don't think Jockic could match Hakeem playing basketball when Dream played.
I guess I will say something crazy Yao was as skilled as Jokic He just didn't have the coaching or teammates. He could do it all until jvg handcuffed him on the block and grinded him unto a fine paste with grind basketball. (China contributed mightily) Rocket River
Chinese basketball and Yao playing year round is what caused Yao's foot problems. 7'6 300 plus pound guys aren't meant to play year round basketball. BTW, Jokic is a more skilled Laimbeer/Yao.
Jokic is like Duncan, too bad Olajuwon did not play that much against Duncan, would have been a marquee matchup.
People would be saying Harden is more skilled than Jordan if the 2018 Rockets would have avoided playing the Golden State Warriors like the Nuggets did this year and won a championship.
Hakeem was the GD man… no question Jokic is excelling in this new version of the NBA. the league is different gang. Hard to compare. But… Hakeem has all the raw skills needed to outperform jokic … except for his lethal passing. Jokic’s passing is phenomenal, bar none. all that said… I’d love to see these two gladiators fight it out … but alas … it will never happen Let’s just hope Sengun can sniff jokers jockstrap
This is a blatant disrespect towards Hakeem , oh i can tell most of you didn't even watch Hakeem folks are the real mentally challenged ones for acting there is a pacific ocean between them. Yes you can make a case for Jokic being more skilled than Hakeem.
I hate that this turns into me seemingly disrespecting Hakeem. I swear I’m not trying to do that. But I really wonder how many people realize that modern NBA team defense would be unrecognizable to anyone who retired before like 2005, give it take a couple years. Not saying Hakeem would struggle, but I think Jokic would have been an elite defender in an era where he would literally never have to guard the perimeter lol.
what's ur take on this my man? You are one of the few on this board who witnessed Hakeem. There’s no way he can guard Hakeem, and Hakeem can shut him down on defense.
Anyone think Hakeem would struggle with the minimal contact and phantom fouls of today's game versus the wrestling matches of the 80s and 90s? Nah. I think younger fans think Hakeem was a primarily defensive player (read: GOAT), but the big men drought between 2002 and Nikola Jokic has made people forget what big men can be. Jokic is such an anomaly in today's game that the past is viewed through a distorted lens. Dream would've eaten Bam Adebayo's soul and had Jokic for dessert. Hakeem's teams were one of the earlier examples of utilizing the inside/outside 3 point and post game that became an archetype in the modern NBA. Those triple (and quadruple!) doubles and the dream shake Legends weren't from some sort of plodding Shaq. Using the term "skill" here, I think, is an attempt to say "passing". Nikola Jokic is a better passer than Hakeem. "Skill" is vague. Skill is footwork, touch, vision, anticipation. I bet people forget how skilled Barkley, Duncan or even Pau Gasol and Chris Webber were. Jokic is a new growth in a rotting cemetery of NBA big men over the last 15 years. The NBA needs more great big men again. Long live the big man. Congrats to Jokic on a well deserved ring and curb stomping the punk media members who simp for perennially overrated Joel Embiid. His game is beautiful to watch. I just don't trust people debating the greats 30 years later when their game is no longer fresh to speak for itself.
That statement isn't true at all but the Clutchfans hate of Joker is insane. Dude is going to go down as one of the best to ever do it and he's the best player in the league right now by a lot.
Statements like this are just insane! We romanticize the past so much in this sport!! How many MVPs have ever been “shut down” by anyone!? That just a crazy thing to say! You can very well believe that Hakeem is the better player! There’s room for discussion on that topic, but when you say crazy stuff like this it makes me not even think it’s worth discussing with you! It is a 100% reasonable take to say that Jokic is the most unique big man we’ve ever seen. He now has 2 MVPs, 1 Title + a FMVP. He plays in a league that’s better than it’s ever been and he’s dominating it in ways we’ve never seen a big man. I’m big on formulating opinions on players based solely on what the player can do. Up until recently I’ve said Hakeem is the greatest big ever, Duncan after that. I’ve seen enough from Joker to give him the top spot! He does things we’ve never seen before, just as Hakeem did!
