Bill Simmons: “In the whisper circles, everybody seems to think he’s going back to Houston.”

harden plus our young guys and whoever we draft in this upcoming draft( pray for victor) will be a top 3 seed in the weak west next year

 

It all depends on Jimmy's decision.

If he wants to come this year or next year or not at all.

It will be a stark contrast to what he wanted to do with Philly and Brooklyn.

In Houston he is seeking strip joints, his familiar lifestyle, money and his brand.

Winning would come second.

We fans don't have a say in this.

 

I clearly said everything I wanted to say, but you literally said nothing. You are just connecting two random sentences. Harden remains the best path forward is not an objective assessment. Then you make a totally random illogical jump to: therefore it's 100% rational to sign him.

What are you talking about? Who the hell wants to sign a guy not known for mentorship or taking care of his body at 34 years old. You'd be one of the only people on earth who is projecting that Harden's fitness will age gracefully. Everyone knows how many fouls, alcohol and minutes are on that body. It's such a rookie way to screw ourselves. Locking that guy into an untradeable contract, he will never ever be worth it. Perhaps Lebron playing so well at his age has made you feel that's normal but it's not, it won't happen for Harden.

The clearest thing for you: If we want Harden, it doesn't matter if we get him for his last 3 years or his last 4 years. His contract is 1,000% going to be negative for the final 2 years, maybe 3 if he declines at a natural pace. Just let Philly or (guess what there's no one else who would) sign him and one year later when he's 35, over the hill, can only pass and shoot 3's, we'll grab him at half price.

We're the youngest team in the NBA and just started rebuilding 2 years ago. There's literally no other team that can afford to be patient as much as we can. Get him 1-2 years later at half price when our foundation is better makes sense. It's logical. This is a business, I fear you're making an emotional assessment. I have Harden gear, jerseys, shoes, I'm such a huge fan of James Harden. This is not the time or the right situation. What we need right now is net neutral or positive contracts only.

It totally will affect our trade choices if we have a 36/37 year old Harden making $50m. We've been through this not once but twice with Les and Tilman. Penny pinching during contention. We have a cheap owner and contenders spend a lot these days to win. It's really dumb to give $50m to someone who is no longer capable of playing defense or scoring 30ppg, they can never even be worth $30m. Why saddle ourselves with that? You're giving up 40% of the cap for a guy who will not be worth 20% frankly.

Just wait. You want Harden just wait, his team will pay us to take him and it will be a better time for him to jump in.

 

I don't believe that Harden or his agent for one moment are thinking they're going to sign in Houston. They will leverage us to Philly's maximum offer whatever it is and 100% sign in Philly or engineer a sign and trade to a contender (Lakers, Blazers, etc). Philly can't afford to lose Harden for nothing, they won't be able to replace him (no picks to dump Maxey and Harris) and will be at risk of losing Embiid.

The FA market just really sucks and someone at ESPN saw that Harden will demand the highest numbers so they love this story. It's the only story. He's the biggest name. There's no one who can sign him except Utah/Indiana if they stretch it and they don't want/need him at all. For the story to work, there has to be two potential outcomes. Harden will stay for the max or slightly less than the max is not a good story.

Harden might go back home to Houston is good for Harden and it's good for Woj/Shams. They are just using the Rockets and if Tilman is falling for it that doesn't surprise me either.

Having said all of that, I can understand why they're being friendly with him because if we land Wemby that changes everything. If we land Wemby you sign Harden right away and we may have a dynasty in motion with the roster and future picks. By the time Harden retires the youngsters will carry it.

 

I think some guys would do themselves a favor to go back and look at what some of the Rockets rosters looked like while Harden was here. He would take this current wet behind the ear roster and turn them into a 50 win team by himself. How could you not want that? Sure beats spending the same money on a combo of Kris Middleton/VanFleet/Porzingis/Russel/Barnes/Draymond etc.. etc.. Hardens game is aging like fine wine. He will play into his 40s with ease.

 

I do not believe that Harden needs any leverage whatsoever to get the max from Harden. Have you seen their roster and cap situation? They have very few ways to improve the roster and stay in contention without Harden unless they can convince a team to take on Harris while they take on another star level player. I also believe there will be multiple teams contending to get Harden the max if he is willing to go to them. As for Harden, I really do believe he will be fine 3-4 years down the road. While not the same lofty scorer obviously, he is still having one of the best seasons of his career. Now, obviously he could still get injured, but Harden's game that's based on skill and strength should be one that ages very gracefully IMO. Personally, I do not believe there is a better solution for us provided Harden is willing to return home. Harden with Green and Jabari is a very strong scoring trio and this is not even including we pick up via draft or trade. I do think if we sign him though, that either KPJ or Sengun will be trade bait for another vet or star.

 

Harden doesn't need to leverage anything or anyone to get the max from Philly. It's a known fact that the Sixers will implode if Harden leaves for (theoretically) greener pastures! I'm sure Fat Elvis has offered him everything he possibly can thats at his disposal..... BUT yet the "Whisper Circles" continue to whisper in circles!! There is definetly smoke coming from those timbers!!

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:
"IF, IF, IF Harden returns he not coming alone".

Go Rockets!!!
.......
.......
.......

 

Saying that the last 3 years of his contract is definitely going to be anything is completely illogical lmao, because life is probabilistic. You're basically using the exact same logic as as he is

Expecting his play to drop off to the point where he's un tradable when the last time he played he was one of the most valuable players in the league is comically inept, especially since his game has never been predicated on athleticism.

Watching you guys argue is funny though, so please keep going.

 

Dude that's dumb. The huge majority of 35, 36 and 37 year olds are not worth the maximum salary in the NBA. Anything other than that is an exception.

These are some of the best players ever over 35:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...and-the-nbas-all-time-greatest-stars-over-35t

You're telling me James Harden being on this list is likely? GTFOH. Those guys were all in elite shape for their age.

You want to believe that good for you, I'm good.

 

That's not 100% true, Harden needs leverage to get the max, he's not making the max and he's not taking a discount again. He's not worth the money he's asking for like in his prime days, he's probably worth $30m-$35m these days and Philly will negotiate.

This is just a business decision, the agent is taking normal steps to create the best negotiating situation. He has to make up the fact that he wouldn't mind going to Houston because there's no serious suitor for his services with FA money. It's not a coincidence.

His #1 choice is to be in Philly imo and he will do whatever it takes to take the maximum they offer and he will take that offer unless a higher paying contender becomes possible in sign and trade. I can see him going to the Lakers as one example, he's from there. I'm sure he would love to play with Lebron and AD if Embiid chokes. He can't go to the Sixers and tell them he wants to go to the Lakers because Sixers will say: we won't co-operate, we don't want to lose you, they don't have cap space. Harden will say: my second choice is Houston. I'm leaving anyway if I don't get the absolute max.

Check-mate, they must sign him at that point or call his bluff (and Morey will be willing to call his bluff if ownership doesn't want to pay that salary).

Remember, the only reason Harden really leaves is if they have a bad season.

 

We will have to disagree then. I for one believes Philly knows the position they will be in if they don't sign Harden, which is beyond ****ed.

 

If Philly wins a chip, I can see Harden slithering back to Houston, so he can take as many shots as he wants. He'll inevitably slow the development of the entire roster. To be blunt, he's tired of sharing power and wants to be defacto GM again.

 

Harden
Green
Jabari
Wemby
Sengun

Tari
Garuba
KMJ
TyTy
[whomever @Medicine N Music says we should draft with the Clippers pick]
Tate
Josh Christopher
Boban

having gotten rid of KPJ and Nix (EDIT: and of Silass, of course!!!!!)

= dream scenario

 

Hate to break it to you, but if Wemby and Harden happen, Sengun is DEFINITELY gone. Harden will want an above the rim center, not a slow Euro clogging up driving lanes for him. It would almost certainly be

Harden
Green
KPJ
Jabari
Wemby

and they'd be playing a positionless switch everything 5 out system.

So maybe alter your fantasy scenario a bit unless you want to be openly rooting for your favorite player to get bounced without realizing it.

 

Sure, if SIlas is still coaching.
I myself have had my doubts Alpi would start if Wemby and Harden both are here, but i have the same doubts both Green and KPj would as well. That's too much bad defense, even worse with all 4 and Bari to the bench. Wemby is incredible and maybe in the 90s when you let your man get by you so the big fella can eat everything at the rim, but now the perimeter player will just eat on the perimeter and avoid Wemby inside.

KPj and Alpi off the bench together probably doesn't work unless KP turns himself into what he'd have to be for Harden-which is a good catch and shoot player and tertiary creator and let Alpi be the main creator and himself secondary creator. It doesn't hurt to have that strong of a bench. Harden is at the end of his time so it's not like it's permanent. I'd even be okay with Green taking the green light 6th man role until Harden degrades or retires.

Without Wemby is when i'd push back on putting Green on the bench. I don't care what too real "Dame Dolla" said about guys getting the keys too early because of where they were drafted. That's how it's always worked and it's revisionist history trying to paint himself as someone who had to work his way in the NBA too. He was a 6th pick and got the keys immediately. Starting every game and averaging almost 40mpg as a rookie. "ring culture" is toxic for those who don't have rings. He knows damn well high picks with high talent on bad teams get the keys, and he knows damn well he'd be on Steph's level if he had the rings, but that's another rant for another day.

 

Honestly, i could see a scenario where the starting lineup were seeing right now could be our bench with Tari instead of Bari-if we get both Wemby and Harden and make a trade for a starting 3 and D. That'd be a huge luxury to have a team already gelled playing off the bench together.

 

It'll have nothing to do with Silas, if Harden is here, he calls the shots. He's not going to want a slow, goofy Euro that wants the ball in the post clogging his driving lanes. I'm not saying I like it, I'm just saying that's how it'll be.

If Harden still has anything left and Jalen takes a step forward, and KPJ stays solid, and Jabari takes a step forward and Wemby doesn't disappoint, the team would have enough offense to not really care about defense.....and let's face it, if you are starting Green, it's not like you can really care about defense that much anyway.

In theory it works....but I'd rather a slower strategy than going with the small window of Harden's final years....while being stuck with him for a few more years after that.

 

For example. I want Cason Wallace with our pick swap. At 6'4, he can play SG to Harden's PG and swap positions on defense. If we got Wemby and Harden, i could easily see Cason being the better fit in the starting lineup along with Bari and KjM.
I can also see a scenario where a defensive minded coach thinks Garuba can start in his system at the 4/5 with Wemby and Bari and then one of Green or KPj is at the 2.

 

FFS. You want a 6’4” rookie at SG over KPJ and JG if Harden comes. We don’t deserve nice things

 

If Harden is calling the shots just like he used to, i'd be very worried we didn't learn our lesson. He needs to come back out of the joy of his heart in playing for this city knowing he's leaving a contender for a rebuild with young talent and knowing he won't have a fraction of the power he once had. If he's coming with intentions of regaining previous power, he would probably have eyes on getting the team to trade our young talent for win now moves that HE wants to play with and contend with and getting a coach that HE wants. To win how he wants has failed. Why would it succeed now when he's much older?
In any scenario where Bari, Green, Alpi etc are sacrificed for some 2 year window-i'd tell Harden to kick rocks. I don't beleive he'd even truly consider a return if we don't win the lottery anyway, but i think Harden is tight with both Green and KPj so they'd be safe, but i'm not trading Bari or Alpi for Harden's 2 year window.