While I totally agree that Jabari needs to improve his handles, I disagree that "every great player is a great ball handler." I mean GREAT ball handler. Only guards are expected to be great ball handlers. Dominant scoring big men with adequate handle is considered great. Do you consider players like Embiid and Dirk as great ball handlers?
Like what? Like who? As I just replied above…. It’s telling you have to go back 25 years and use a HOF, all time great to make your point. Can we keep the comparisons to the modern NBA and current superstars. I really like Jabari, I just worry we ended up getting a player with a high floor and lower ceiling relative to the other picks. Time will tell.
Embiid is far more advanced than Jabari at this point. The skill level of big man has changed since Dirk played. I would love for Jabari to become a HOF player like Dirk, but you keep bringing up past big man who are HOF.
We are not comparing. We are debunking your assumption that only great ball handlers can create for themselves and others. That assumption is clearly wrong because there have been numerous great players who would not be considered great ball handlers.
Why can’t you list superstars in the current NBA? I think comparisons to this current NBA is more insightful… Surprised you didn’t list Bill Walton….
Hey, I thought you were claiming ALL superstars had that same skillset. So now you forbid us to talk about superstars because Jabari is not a superstar yet? That's a bid circular reasoning, isn't it? So does Embiid have GREAT handle or not?
Come on smith show up next game. This thread is sad for #3 pick. I think he needs to shoot 7-10 3s per game, he will be good!
It was my mistake to assume we would be talking about the current NBA since that’s the NBA Jabari would be playing in…. I think Embiid has great handles for a big men at 7’0” and +270 lbs. He can create for himself and others. He’s far more advance at this juncture. I would hope Jabari can at least get to that level to go with his elite shooting.
I think this should be less if a worry and more of an it is what it is. If Jabari maxes out as a 15-20 ppg complimentary scorer with 7-9 boards and A defense… it is what it is. Rockets selected third. there IS an upside case and it’s the one folks have been talking about for weeks now. 2-4 years in, strong muscle increases, handle improvement even if not great and a step or 3 above the player described. is there an upside case beyond that? Well… always. Dude remains incredibly young. He just turned 19. Is it Jalen Duren young or Giannis rookie year young? No. But it’s a FULL YEAR younger than Chet. is that upside upside case likely? No. But the answer there is no for 99% of players. But SL is a ridiculous place to make that judgement final. see Trae. See Steph. See Gianni’s. See Jokic. https://www.nba.com/news/atlanta-hawks-trae-young-too-quick-judge-young-prospect A lot of these guys, interestingly to me, had a commonality in that they just hadn’t come close to growing into their body yet… LIKE Jabari. you could make that argument about someone like Chet, too… and while it is somewhat true… it’s also somewhat true that that body isn’t growing much bigger from here on out, imo, from a. Bulk perspective. long story short. His high floor MAY also be his ceiling. His ceiling may be a bit higher. And potentially way higher. Absent breakout performances from here out in somewhat confident in only one thing. His rookie year is likely not going to he close to his final form.
Thank you. Even Kevin Durant had a very lackluster rookie year. Let's all pick up this convo in a year or two.
The goal for the Rockets at this stage is to draft stars or superstars with their top picks. It’s not an all or nothing approach because there may not be star or superstar left at number 3. While my rhetoric may suggest I’m very down on Jabari, Im really not but I’m just viewing this through my first statement. SL is meaningless as these were my thoughts before SL even started. I had Jabari number one on my armchair GM board for much of the season but just shifted as I dug more into it.
He had 10 shots and only 10 pts. Regardless whether people were passing to him or not he was inefficient with the shots he had like him shooting 25% from 3. Thst aint due to people not passing to him dawg.
Would you say Dirk, Tim Duncan and Embiid have great handles? Jabari is a big man he aint a guard. His job is to defend, rebound and shoot 3s at a high clip. Where does ball handling fsctor in those? Ball handling is a nice bonus but it aint part of his job requirement.
See, you have to add "for a big men." Big men's handles aren't supposed to be compared to smaller men. Let me give you two reasons. 1. It is very difficult for a tall guy to have a tight dribble. It's just physics. Big men dribbling in traffic can easily be stripped. That's why the vast majority of primary ball handlers are shorter guys. 2. Big men who can shoot don't need to have elite handles. Smaller guys need great handles to create a lot of space in order to avoid being blocked. Big men don't need that much space because their releasing point is high. Look, Jabari clearly is not there yet. But we are talking about a 19-year-old's upside. I like bringing up Dirk as an example of a jump shooting big man. Although he is no longer playing, he clearly would still be a dominant scorer if he played his prime in today's NBA. It's because he can shoot from anywhere on the floor. He is so big he doesn't need a great handle to get his shot off. In fact, he is one of the first scoring big men who did not rely on a low post game. If you watch Jabari's game, he has no difficulty creating for himself. The one dribble or two side step shot anywhere on the floor is extremely difficult to defend. Jabari is already possessing the skills to be an elite 3&D guy. That's his floor. If he can develop a better handle, he will be a superstar. If he can also see the floor well and has a passing game, he will be a top 5 player. Granted, those two things aren't easy to develop. But he seems to be a hard working guy. I have hope.
Klay Thompson was a very bad ball handler when he first came in the league. Defenses used to scheme to just get him to put the ball on the floor because he would likely turn the ball over when he did. Even today - despite being one of the most electric scorers in the game, he doesn’t handle the ball and create like a classic ball handling scorer would - he uses screens and his automatic shot to open up other parts of his game and has slowly gotten more effective at handling the ball. Kawhi was another one who entered the league with poor handles. Rip Hamilton I seem to remember was similarly not a great ball handler.
When we are trying to draft stars or superstars to rebuild our team and get back to contention. Chet and Paolo are both big man and both have handles, especially the latter.
There were literally two big men drafted ahead of Jabari with more advanced handles… Centers like Jokic and Embiid have both developed enough handles and playmaking to run an offense, especially the former. Time will tell… but my original point is that the goal is to draft stars or superstars. Hopefully Jabari will develop enough of an overall offensive game.
