1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    2,153
  2. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,873
    Likes Received:
    18,646
    War is just horrible. One possible reason why Putin has bombed the hell out of some cities (eg Mariupol) and not others (Kyiv) is because of his religious tie to Kyiv. Multiple nations have stated they have very strong evidences Russia is committing war crimes (intentional target of civilians).
     
  3. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    24,002
    Likes Received:
    19,912
    Though Shall Not Kill seems like a dealbreaker. But who gets to say whether or not he’s a “real” Christian? The Bible or Pat Robertson? My guess is analogies will be made regarding King David etc. and the Pat Robertsons and co. will embrace murder in Evangelical circles. Seems pretty clear that the Catholic Church will not at the Pope level but there is a huge split in the church here in the US, and when I’ve attended one of the churches here in our area the Homilies are increasingly hyper-partisan. Even naming Biden and Pelosi and claiming they aren’t REAL Catholics.

    So if it’s the biblical text… no Putin is no follower of Christ and isn’t going to heaven short of a major ask for forgiveness and turning his life around to follow Christ.

    If it’s the modern American church from a figurehead standpoint it’s clear he’ll still be viewed as a fellow Christian and global leader they’ll support.
     
  4. Xopher

    Xopher Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2017
    Messages:
    3,360
    Likes Received:
    5,088
    You can bet your ass if it were reversed and Ukraine had all the oil instead of Russia the U.S. would have had boots on the ground weeks ago
     
  5. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,873
    Likes Received:
    18,646
    He's easily not by the non-extremist religious standard. But I think the more relevant question is does he believe he's special and has a higher calling of some sort. Violence based on religion is the most dangerous. An atheist like Vladimir Lenin still operates in the real world. A religious extremist does not and might not be bounded by the pain of this world.
     
    jiggyfly and dobro1229 like this.
  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    124,093
    Likes Received:
    32,985
    Yep, more arguing about a mythical being leading to killing in their name......

    DD
     
    Xopher likes this.
  7. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Messages:
    8,031
    Likes Received:
    3,879
    Glenn Greenwald is almost as big of an intellectually dishonest clown as basso. It is little surprise that he has found his way to GG.
     
    #6327 gifford1967, Mar 23, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2022
  8. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,174
    Likes Received:
    112,821
    I don't care if Putin does or doesn't consider himself a Christian, it doesn't change the fact he is a complete *******.

    Also, could Putin be killing more people in the Ukraine? Yeah of course he could, but I am not giving him credit for that. He is still invading a non hostile country and murdering his people, the Ukrainians and involving the whole world - he is currently the biggest ******* in the world.

    This all sounds simplistic, because it is simplistic. Some try to make it more complicated to justify what Putin is doing. It is simple, he wants the Ukraine because he is a greedy *******, and the concern of the people that live there doesn't matter.
     
  9. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    24,002
    Likes Received:
    19,912
    It's a great point. Trump was told by the James Dobson types early on his presidency over and over that THEY view him as a David type of figure in modern day Christianity. You can look up quotes all over the place, and the people who were in his ear at that time. He even showed signs that he bought into it by saying something along the lines of "I am the chosen one" etc. etc.

    Now imagine hear that, believing it, and THEN having the power of the worlds largest nuclear arsenal at your fingertips without the checks and balances that Trump had in his first term (we can argue about a 2nd term). That's where Putin's mindset likely is at IMO where the figures in the Russian Orthadox church likely tell him over and over the same crap that Jerry Followill and Pat Robertson were telling Trump.

    The character of David in the bible is just very important for Christianity in justifying violence to achieve a religious goal as a head of state. It gives people like Putin a figure that religious leaders can point to as a mold for a messiac figure to follow and give a pass to using violence for sure.

    So yeah... I think the guy likely believes he is at the very least a David type of figure for the Russian Christian Evangelical church, and I do think he doesn't think twice about the powers he has as divine vs the average every day human being under the laws of Christ.

    However the bible has something to say about this.

    What John describes in Revelation is pretty much this being the mold of the antichrist. A figure that appoints himself divine messiac special privilege's, and rules in tyranny in the name of Christ. In the bible it was Nero John was using as an example. As a metaphor John would very well be referring to Putin as an antichrist for sure, and those who would allow Christs name to be taken in vein like this would themselves be in violation of the Ten Commandments, and by definition would be going to hell unless they repent.
     
    Amiga, B-Bob and Ottomaton like this.
  10. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    So it sounds like the promises of support for Ukraine by the virtue signalling hacks who rule in the west have been a lot more talk than action.

    Ukraine 'running out of weapons' as other countries 'fail to send promised aid'

    Ukraine is believed to be running out of weapons as it continues to hold off Russian forces, amid warnings some countries have failed to send promised aid.

    Western nations have thrown their support behind the war-torn nation following Vladimir Putin's invasion on 24 February. According to The Times, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy has told Boris Johnson that his country was getting through a week's supply of weapons in just 20 hours as the Russian attack and constant shelling comes on multiple fronts.

    But while many countries have promised weapons to help bolster the Ukrainian arsenal, some have not kept up the supply. Paul Grod, president of the Ukrainian World Congress, told the newspaper that some nations – including Germany and France – had not delivered promised arms.​
     
  11. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    19,778
    Likes Received:
    25,690
    Not very patriotic of a party that calls themselves America's Patriots.
     
  12. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,919
    Likes Received:
    36,480
    I think it's time to stop describing @basso favorite Glenn Greenwald as a leftist.

    The case for him being a leftist:

    he opposed the Iraq War.

    So what! Most Republicans now retroactively oppose the Iraq war, including their lord and master Donald Trump who explicitly campaigned on it being a disaster

    The case for him being a rightist.

    Pro Trump, just literally spent the last 4 years fighting on the internet with anti Trumpists
    Pro Tucker - goes without saying.
    Anti Obama - again spent 8 years denouncing the Obama admin for Afghanistan
    Anti Hillary - a foaming at the mouth-style Clinton conspiracy theorist
    Anti Biden - spends large swathes of his life dealing Hunter Biden nonsense

    The verdict? In the US of A - Glenn Greenwald is a .... right wing troll with a substack. Oh boy, how novel.
     
    Nook, jiggyfly, AleksandarN and 5 others like this.
  13. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    42,701
    Likes Received:
    39,336
    I don't think he's really right wing either though. I think he's just a troll in general who has found the best way to monetize his profession.
     
  14. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    24,002
    Likes Received:
    19,912
    Who really knew who Glenn Greenwald was before about a year or so ago when he started going nuts in order to get wingnuts to follow him and repost his crap? I sure didn't.

    There is no better business model in media to jack up your profile overnight then to be someone who says they were liberal or someone of color to attack Democrats non-stop. Tulsi figured this out. Candace Owen figured this out. Bill Maher figured this out. The "Blacks for Trump" guy at Trump's rally's figured it out, Etc. etc.

    If I wanted a following on Twitter I could have one very easily by just showing that used to be a liberal but NOW I think Biden and the Democrats are evil because X. It's actually kind of surprising that more people are doing what Greenwald is doing.
     
    jiggyfly likes this.
  15. myco

    myco Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2002
    Messages:
    805
    Likes Received:
    267
    I thought he was a fairly recognizable name for breaking the Snowden stuff. And also for being a huge dick.
     
    Nook, jiggyfly, superfob and 3 others like this.
  16. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    24,002
    Likes Received:
    19,912
    Maybe but at least I didn't know who he was and I'm obviously not completely un-plugged from politics or the media.
     
  17. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    29,706
    Likes Received:
    6,396
    why have a strategy that no one, including Trump, could have executed against?
     
  18. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    4,452
    Likes Received:
    5,866
    Ukraine does have a lot oil and gas that has not been developed it is one of the reasons why Putin is invading Ukraine. Putin sees Ukraine a threat to their gas dominance in Europe.
     
    jiggyfly likes this.
  19. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    30,110
    Likes Received:
    17,010
    He like Tulsi Gabbard is a huge look-at-me-look-at-me media w****. I do my very best to ignore both.
     
  20. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,873
    Likes Received:
    18,646
    1st senior Russian official resigned over the invasion

    EDIT: 30 years of Russian economic reform and modernization down the toilet in weeks.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Chubais

    Anatoly Borisovich Chubais (Russian: Анатолий Борисович Чубайс; born 16 June 1955) is a Russian business oligarch who was responsible for privatization in Russia as an influential member of Boris Yeltsin's administration in the early 1990s.[1] During this period, he was a key figure in introducing a market economy and the principles of private ownership to Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union.

    From 1998 to 2008, he headed the state-owned electrical power monopoly RAO UES. A 2004 survey conducted by PricewaterhouseCoopers and the Financial Times named him the world's 54th most respected business leader.[2] He was the head of the Russian Nanotechnology Corporation (RUSNANO) in 2008–2020.[3][4] He was a member of the Advisory Council for JPMorgan Chase from September 2008 until 2013.[5][6] Since December 2020, he worked as a Special Envoy of the President of Russian Federation for Relations with International Organizations.[7] On 23 March 2022, he stepped down from this position, stating his opposition to the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, and left Russia.[8][9]


    https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...e-stalled-besieged-mariupol-burns-2022-03-23/

    And in a sign of cracks in Moscow's ranks, a veteran aide to Putin, Anatoly Chubais, resigned over the Ukraine war and has left Russia with no intention to return, two sources said. He was first senior official to break with the Kremlin since Putin launched his invasion on Feb. 24.

    ..

    In Moscow, the Kremlin confirmed that Chubais, the senior official had resigned of his own accord.

    Chubais was one of the principal architects of Boris Yeltsin's economic reforms of the 1990s and was Putin's boss in the future president's first Kremlin job. He later ran big state businesses under Putin and held political jobs, lately serving as Kremlin special envoy to international organisations.

    Chubais hung up the phone when contacted by Reuters. The sources did not say where he was.
     
    #6340 Amiga, Mar 23, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2022

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now