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[Feigen] Four grueling months: the road to the James Harden trade

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by J.R., Jan 22, 2021.

  1. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

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  2. ROXonROXonROX

    ROXonROXonROX Member

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    Pat is actually a pretty smart guy who’s nothing like his father. And I do believe Tilman had no choice but to stay out of negotiations bc he learned his lesson trading CP3 for a horrible contract and player that isn’t living up to that contract as we speak. That was a $40m loss that Tilman doesn’t want to experience again. He’s fortunate to have a bright front office that can start over on a clean slate and make sure this roster is built right rather than bought. Things are looking good and I have to thank mainly Stone for that.
     
  3. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    Not trying to be rude, but rather than every prominent reporter from the three biggest outlets covering the team (The Athletic, the Chronicle, and ESPN have all been called out here) all being in on some massive spin conspiracy, maybe the truth is a little bit different than some of you think?

    We're all on the outside, myself included. We can have hunches and educated guesses as to what we think is going on, and we don't always have to agree. I just don't know why we have to call people mouthpieces when we don't have hard evidence ourselves of them being wrong.



    Anyway, as far as the story, perhaps the most interesting aspect (to me) was the part about Harden being openly critical of last year's assistant coaches. IMO, now that everything is said and done, the time period that I think was most damaging was May and June 2019, which set the table for the desperation Russ trade. And that's also when the staff was set up.

    After that Game 6 loss to the Warriors, they didn't do the normal exit interviews, didn't say a word about D'Antoni for days and whether he'd return. Lot of rumors about them potentially looking elsewhere. Then Daryl and MDA finally did a joint TV interview with AT&T SW, trying to downplay and saying everything is fine. "Run it back," part two. Then, a few days after saying D'Antoni was staying, they let go of nearly the entire staff (including Bzdelik and Roland, who was close with Harden). Only outside addition of significance was Elston Turner, who had no connections to the current group. They tried multiple times to do a one-year extension with MDA to avoid a lameduck scenario, even did a private jet with Tilman and Daryl going to his offseason home in West Virginia. Rockets thought they had a deal, turns out MDA's agent wasn't on board. Ultimately, it doesn't get done.

    Then you have the reports of friction between Harden and CP, and tons of reports of how confident the Rockets were that Jimmy Butler was coming (presumably due to what he was telling Harden). He ended up ghosting them. All of those things added up, IMO, to a sense of desperation among the team and Harden, which led to the forced Russ trade and way too many draft assets being given up.

    In hindsight, that's the time period I want to know more about. How close were they to moving on from MDA after the Warriors series? Why did they decide to keep him as a lameduck yet rearrange nearly the entire coaching staff beneath him? (Unlike this offseason, when Stone/Silas made a ton of strong assistant hires — at least on paper — no one with significant options was coming into that situation a year ago, given the HC instability.) What happened with the communication, particularly between Harden/Paul and Harden/Butler? MacMahon reported that Harden basically issued a "trade Russ or I want out" edict around this time, so clearly he was frustrated by something, as well. So many questions.
     
    #63 The Cat, Jan 23, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
  4. Cstyle42

    Cstyle42 Member

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    Rightfully so to call out Harden but still... sweep around your own front door before try to sweep around mine.
     
  5. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    So many questions unanswered still. The Rockets did not discuss an extension with MDA signaling that they didn’t want him. The article suggests that was solely MDA’s decision to leave, which doesn’t paint the complete picture. He likely walked away since there was no deal in place and looked to other opportunities. Feigen also wrote that Harden had “second thoughts” after retooling of the roster. I’m very interested to know what his thought process was. Did he think the Rockets had a chance the first few games? Was this why he scored 30+ first 3 games or so? Did those 3 losses to western conf playoff teams to start the season and a close game to the kings solidify in his mind that this team isn’t good enough? Very interesting.
     
  6. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    I call it like I see it Ben.

    I'm no insider but it is well known about Feigan and his pro-Rockets puff pieces that predate Tilman's ownership. At least Feigan is consistent.

    But Tim MacMahon and even Jackson Gatlin are actually chummy with Tilman and his family. These are supposed to be unbiased journalists but you can observe the impartiality via social media.

    And Iko was not anti-Hardwn, heck there were zero local media who were anti-Harden, while Morey was GM. But after Morey left, we are flooded with a tidal wave of anti-Harden/pro-Tilman Fertitta reports.

    Much of it contradictory with previous reports from Morey tenure with reporters not even trying to explain the contradictions and inconsistencies.

    Tilman is a huge Trump fan and he is well aware of Trump's famous axiom, you can speak anything into existence if you repeat it often enough.
     
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  7. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    I just don't think that superficially having a positive relationship with a subject means the coverage is compromised. We see these guys all the time at TC, and we get to ask them questions, both on and sometimes off the record. Over time, there's going to be relationships developed. I don't think that means that the reporting is forever compromised or not credible. Quite frankly, it enhances the reporting in many cases, because they're more likely to open up to you.

    I think all of those reporters you named are willing to tell both sides of the story, but it takes two to tango. (In particular, Iko's "culture" article in November was pretty scathing against the organization, I thought.)

    With MacMahon, if you notice, a lot of his "bigger" articles are co-bylined with Woj and/or Ramona. The biggest reason? As truly national reporters, Woj/Ramona have more of a direct line to out-of-market sources, so it presents a more comprehensive picture. Same with Iko and Sam Amick/Shams.

    I just don't think it's necessary to go after them on a personal level or accuse them of trying to spin things. They're doing the best they can with the sources they have, and in the cases for guys who are based in Houston (or Texas, in MacMahon's case), they're naturally going to get more of their info from the team's side. Doesn't mean they won't try to get things elsewhere — note MacMahon trying to get Monbear to open up on Twitter, lol. But at some point, you have to do your job with the information that you have.

    Anyway, I'm not trying to say you should take this report or any report as 100% gospel, it's fair to be skeptical of some things. I just think it's overkill to insinuate that the journalists involved are actively trying to spin or spread misinformation. They're trying as best they can, IMO
     
  8. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    I understand your point but im not seeing the impartiality, especially not since Morey left.

    The negative pieces smearing Morey, D'Antoni and Harden have been savage but even more troubling, contradictory.

    Harden's off court activities and proclivities have been well known FOR YEARS. Even by us fans and non journalists but the unrelenting attacks on Harden PLUS praise for Fertitta AFTER Harden's demands was far from impartial or worse, even timely.

    Some of the recent pieces even directly rebut Tilman's own words simply to improve upon Tilman's perceived reputation.

    And when these same professionals are taking potshots at former members of the organization on social media and being "liked" by members of Tilman's family, that is very telling.
     
  9. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    The previous off-court activities you're alluding to didn't come A) during a global pandemic while flauting the most basic practice (masks) and B) at the expense of him being in attendance for team practices and events. That's why what happened the last two months is very different.

    I haven't seen praise for Fertitta, so I'll leave that one alone. I've seen additional context provided in response to criticisms, but praise is a stretch based on what I've seen. Maybe I missed something, though.
     
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  10. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    I'm not defending Hardens behavior at all but I won't demonize him either.

    Especially not in Texas.

    Where there have been others with much higher public standing and expectations who have behaved much more egregiously as well as regular folks who have treated the pandemic as a hoax.

    Ignorance is ignorance.

    And it was Tilman amongst others, not Harden, who has wholeheartedly and publicly supported a president who has constantly lied to American public, tried to steal an election by bypassing Constitution AND incited an insurrection.

    But I will admit that a journalist's personal relationship with player/owner/organization should not automatically disqualify that journalist from fair reporting.
     
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  11. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    Also, I do think you're right about some people throwing undeserved jabs at Daryl and Mike, but I've noticed that more with bloggers than the actual reporters. (And yes, I'm mostly a blogger, too, not trying to look down on anybody. I just try to be responsible, because you're right, there's some of it that gets too personal.)
     
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  12. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    This tweet of yours perfectly encapsulates an example of all the misinformation that the public was fed during this period hence my disappointment and distrust of some of the media I used to rely on.

    And that misinformation deluge was not limited to just during coaching search.

    Again my opinion.

     
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  13. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    I consider you to be even more fair than some journalists actually.

    Even when I do not agree with you, I'm certain you are not purposefully slanting your pieces.

    Appreciate the exchange, as always.
     
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  14. IBTL

    IBTL Member
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    tldr-
    Lakers beat them so badly it ended the whole team.
    Harden can't do it on own and only sees a few teams like nets as a way. Anything past that is blame. Kd, giannis arent coming to houston so it's an easy equation here = bye harden

    In the end it was a gassed looking cp3 that started all of this and the first domino.

    Blame fertitta harden wb morey sun moon stars and truth is a healthy cp3 and you keep going. Every one thought cp3 was done...literally everyone ..this rewrite or attempt to try to understand is weird. He looked like sh*it
     
  15. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    All this ignores the leaks and airing of dirty bridge burning laundry throughout The Process (Ferntits style).

    I guess the circus started with fmr. ass. coaches sparking the fire and Till agents doing uhh "damage control".

    Hope there's a lot of plausible deniability in this. Like...it was the 5th time they told him "deal was close to completion" and he snapped.

    Doesn't look good on James though. He should've given FO his no bullshit deadline instead of airing it in public.
     
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  16. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    The thing about this is that even if the truth was "Tilman wanted to rat**** Murry" and that's how it went down, there's 0 benefit for Murry to come out and say "Tilman rat****ed me for leverage."

    This line, at least, allows them to move for doing business.

    Tilman gets to wear his big boi diapers and Murry still has a phone number he can call to offload **** contracts and tasty Cash Considerations to Ferntits Jr's car collection.
     
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  17. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    DING DING DING!

    What a refreshing post! When analyzing everything you have to take the 10,000 foot view. Look at the macro. Look at ALL the events from the time #Tilman bought the team to where it is today. There have been a series of ripple effects that lead to where we are. Those are the things that motivated the below parties to do what they did.

    Great post @PeppermintCandy!


     
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  18. Tfor3

    Tfor3 Member

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    Nepotism
     

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