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Playing Off The Ball

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Rocket River, Jan 10, 2021.

  1. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    So your solution is for Harden to be Lebron James?

    Why havent all the other NBA teams thought of that?

    Every AllStar just needs to be Lebron James.

    Realistic.
     
  2. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    Honestly, I had to go back and see what my original point was and how the conversation unfolded. Here's my attempt to to sort out the main points while skipping what appear in retrospect to be digressions:

    My original point was that "win now and worry about playoffs later" is but one way to approach the regular season, and you can be successful approaching it a different way. I mentioned the Spurs. You objected, and I gather now that your point was that Silas doesn't have the experience/pedigree to pull off that approach to the regular season. I provided evidence that the more "diversified" offense that Silas seems to be trying to implement was motivated by how the thinks the team can be successful in the playoffs. You countered with evidence that Silas is trying to "win now" in the regular season. You believe he's making the wrong choices towards that end.

    OK, so to conclude:

    (a) I started with a claim that Silas may be pursuing a strategy that he recognizes to be less optimal for regular season but better for the playoffs. I've been focusing on the second half of that, but on the first half I concede that I have no strong evidence that he thinks his strategy is actually less optimal for the regular season. So absent that evidence, I'll accept your premise that he's pursuing the strategy that he thinks will maximize both regular season wins and chances of playoff success.

    (b) The next question is whether the Rockets should switch to a D'antoni style offense to maximize regular season outcome with this roster. You have argued they should. I'm not prepared to agree or disagree with you, yet. I'm sure you consider that a cop out, but the fact is I haven't seen enough of this team with the new players to have a good sense of whether we are better off with this new offense or rolling back to an MDA offense.
     
    #162 durvasa, Jan 11, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
  3. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    I honestly don't buy the whole only works in the regular season argument. In the Harden Era, it's no coincidence that the two WCF appearances came from a 56 wins and 65 wins seasons. Winning is winning. I have yet to see a team struggle in the regular season and then somehow win the championship in a long time.
     
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  4. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    Silas has been concerned with those zone traps and wants actions to free up harden. He has said this several times in interviews. I still don’t think you can play wall and harden at the same time. Wall can’t shoot no point for him to be off ball. Harden needs to play with EG. He needs to be his dominant self.
     
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  5. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    Huh? Wall plays with second unit. Whatchu talking about?
     
  6. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    Huh? Have you not watched the Warriors win 3 championships on off ball screens and flares? The reason why Silas wants more offball action is to put the pressure off harden where in MDA’s system he was constantly trapped. There can be a happy medium where harden can play freely and work off ball. Not sure why many of you are against offball when many of you clamored for it for years lol. Make up your minds fickle fans lol
     
  7. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    I think there can be a best of both worlds or happy medium. Harden hasn’t figured it out yet. In due time. Or Silas may open it up. There’s constant adjustments made with both players and coaches.
     
  8. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    Iso ball doesn’t work and the past 4 years with MDA proved it. No need to reproduce anything. Ironic though how some folks want the harden iso back when they have been advocating ball movement and off ball screens for years lol.
     
  9. Poonwalker

    Poonwalker Member

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    There is a lack of chemistry right now with Harden and Wall and it includes Wood. Harden is trying to allow Wall to run the floor but this is new to him. He is less of a threat without the ball and his shot is predicated on taking dribbles before the shot. Harden has chemistry with Wood but Wall not so much. I think that is an area that has to develop between those two especially when Harden draws a double and Wall can get the ball. Lack of 3 point shooting is killing us. Nwaba in particular is being left open by defenses as they load up the paint. The way we respond to this is the responsibility of Silas. We are thin at center and we really need a true 3-D guy that can make defenses pay.
     
  10. Kevooooo

    Kevooooo Member

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    You are correct in that GSW used it a lot. But Harden is not Klay or Steph. He’s not build to come running off a million screens. He’d have no energy. I am not against off ball. I just don’t think it looks like what people expect it to due to Hardens physique mostly.
     
  11. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    Houston just hasn’t given James a SG/Combo guard that best fits him and potentially unlock a serious offensive juggernaut between the two. He has meshed well with players like Bev or EG who understood their roles and didn’t necessarily need the ball in their hands for a lengthy amount of time. I contend that players like McCollum, Klay, Middleton would be ideal for him. Maybe even brogdan. Shooters that can drive and create when need be but not necessarily ball dominant.

    In hindsight IMO Morey should’ve pulled the trigger on a McCollum deal or a player like him instead of CP3 but you can’t blame him for wanting a hall of famer next to harden. In the long term Mccolum makes more sense and we didn’t necessarily have to ship off all those assets. That’s why I advocate a trade of Harden for Dame Dolla. While this doesn’t make the Rockets any better and possibly a little worse the move works for both guys. Dame isn’t winning with that team or the rockets but I think James can take them to new heights and maybe even reach the finals. I truly believe this and I’m surprised no one has talked about this.
     
    #171 Stephen_A, Jan 12, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
    Rocket River likes this.
  12. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    I don’t know about his physique I just think there can be a balance. He isn’t going to be rip Hamilton running in circles in the half court but he can have the best of both worlds. The MDA offense was just too predictable and we had no answer for those zone traps a lot of the time.
     
  13. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    We sure miss GG now for shooting smh. Why they didn’t cut Broderic Thomas I dunno. And Not sure why they signed bruno when he can’t play.
     
  14. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    Personnel he shaped and created lol.
     
  15. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    That’s why people should calm the hell down. The coaching and harden are figuring things out. You can’t expect them to master a whole new way of play after being stuck in a stagnant MDA system. James and Silas are figuring it out. Constant adjustments until the final product. You all need to understand this. If we are talking the mid point and we still stink then something isn’t working. Relax for now.
     
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  16. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    Besides Wall isn’t a shooter. No point in playing off ball of you’re not a shooter.
    What does same thing look like? How different should the team play and what does that look like? This team was built by the great Morey specifically for the MDA system with two super max contracts and role players on the cheap and many of those players are still here. Silas said from the beginning that they will introduce a few actions that takes the pressure off harden. The actions will also share the ball more and make the offense less predictable. They will still play iso from time to time maximizing hardens talent. They have done that but some kinks need to worked out.
     
  17. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    You guys are thinking too much. Simple. Wood need to be in short corner more. He also needs to set real picks from time to time and play real PNR instead of that fake pick diving to the basket he always does. He also need to Pass from low post or elbows cuts. Harden need to find that balance and look to score on dribble drive and find wood in that short corner when they collapse. He can do this either thru iso or off ball screens. Lastly Rox need to make 3 point shots. Simple.
     
  18. Kevooooo

    Kevooooo Member

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    Agree 100%. I just think people expect him to be running hard of screens. His body isn’t built for that. That’s not where he has an advantage.
     
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  19. davidxhz

    davidxhz Member

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    Cp3 is the best fit alongside harden and harden will mvp on that season where we almost knocked off GS, that’s our best lineup and tilman broke it, sent away ariza and traded cp3, that has cemented Tillman’s legacy here, this man will never bring a champion to Houston
     
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  20. dmoneybangbang

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    We had elite defenses backing up Harden's isoball during the WCF runs.

    There is no magic bullet...... we can revert back to our old ways and maybe overperform in the regular season while getting stomped in the second round if we are lucky. Or we can try something new.

    Either way, we don't have the time to convince Harden to stay.
     
    J Sizzle likes this.

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