I am going to start by stating this is NOT a "trade Cato and picks for Kevin Garnett" or a "Walt, 13, & 22 for the #1" topic. This is an observation and let's skip the dreamcasting. First, during the season I watched the Clips (as in LA Clippers) dismantle the Lakers. The Clippers turned the game into a track meet. IMO, overall TEAM speed is a Laker weakness. This will get worse as the team ages (Grant, Shaw, Harper, Fox, etc). I also feel the current Rockets would win a track meet with LA. (In case you haven't noticed, the Spurs are woefully lacking in fastbreak baskets in the WC Finals). The Rockets MUST have a super defensive rebounder who knows how to outlet for a break. Preferably, this player can block or intimidate shots. A Center is the most likely position for this as Shaq plays much closer to the hoop than Fox or Horry. (I think the new NBA zone is going to plant alot of players on the 3pt. line). As long as they meet the job description - this player can come via ANY method (draft, FA signing, trade, current player improvement). Other qualities are foot speed (for a 5) and a good mid-range jumper. Both are important because without the illegal defense call, Centers can plant themselves anywhere along the lane. Secondly, the Rockets must obtain a mobile, athletic SF. To maximixe effectiveness in the new zone, the SF should be someone with excellent foot speed (and/or long arms) and the ability to get out on a break and finish strong at the hoop (or to be the trailer on a secondary break). I also envision the SF guarding Kobe. I think Cuttino may be able to frustrate Fox as he is quicker. I have deliberately avoided naming specific players. Surely, with the picks and cap space alot can be accomplished. The Rockets don't need every super-star athlete on the planet. They just need to define the methodology and find the right players. I hope they opt for "track meet" because it's fun to watch and neutralizes Shaq-type players. ------------------ Raef to Rocks in '01-'02! [This message has been edited by GATER (edited May 22, 2001).]
Gater you may be right. But keep in mind that LA has put their team into another gear since the 1st of April. The Kings like to run and they had no success. They had a guy who could D up Kobe (Chrsitie) who had no success vs him. I think in theory you may be right but LA is on a totally different level right now. Lie I said somewhere elso barring injuries to Shaq/Kobe or another ego problem these guys are going to be good for a few years.
Good topic, Gater I was about to post a similar one myself. It is getting hard to imagine a scenario in which the Lakers can be beaten. Barring some incredible luck in getting two big men. I think that your track meet type of style would be the only realistic chance for us to beat the Lakers. Under this theory the teams with the best chance are Orlando and the Clippers as you suggest. I am thinking of an all star game in which, Penny, MJ and Grant Hill ran away from Hakeem, Shaq, Barkley and Robinson to win the game, if memory serves me correctly. By the way the track meet style would suggest that we keep all our draft picks and go for extreme athleticism. Getting a Battier type would not help. ------------------
GATER: bingo. now you're smelling me. this is what i've been preaching (to deaf ears) around here for months. the way to beat the elite western conference teams is with speed, athleticism, and a few more key ingredients. namely: dominant backcourt: 4chuckie, you're right about sacto. but what you're not realizing is that sacto does not have a backup which dominates the tempo of the game, nor that penetrates and creates havoc in the half-court. j-dudd is erratic and sux. christie is a great complementary guard, but not one that can start and pickup j-wont's slack. what they, unsuccessfully tried to do is battle the lakers in a 1/2 court offense - something that san antonio is trying, too. what they are finding out is that this lakers team may very well be the greatest 1/2 court team in nba history. to defeat this team, it is absolutely necessary to rebound and run them out of the gym. when the game does slow down, you must have guards that can exploit d-fish's slow feet, can make kobe play defense (and maybe collect some fouls), and can go right at the diesel (and make him collect some fouls). this is the reason the rockets, milwaukee, the clippers, etc. had some success against la. multiple scoring options: "Getting a Battier type would not help." -glynch i disagree. battier has enough athleticism to roll with the rox, although i don't think we'll have a chance at him. this may be a blessing though: take a look at j-richardson or r-jefferson. if they display the ability to consistently shoot the open shot and hit it (out to nba 3 range) i'd take them in a heartbeat. notice, all these guys are guys who can shoot, are long, and play decent defense. most importantly, they are guys who can get up and down the court and (except for shane) create their own shot. bottom line: to beat la, you must be able to score from almost every position. not that they'll all average 20ppg, just that they can and will score and/or shoot/hit the open j and create off the dribble. some people here (gascon, et al) disagree with me. that's fine. but you'll see i'm right when the bucks are in the finals against the lakers. the way to win in today's nba is not with defense, defense, defense. it's with offense, offense, defense. Barring some incredible luck in getting two big men. I think that your track meet type of style would be the only realistic chance for us to beat the Lakers. not necessarily. i'd take 2 big men, but the - uptempo shooting, slashing sf, - uptempo shooting, extending pf - uptempo midrange, dunking, rebounding c with 2 dominant guards would do even better against the spurs/lakers. btw, GATER: great topic.
The Lakers are screwed for next year anyway. The new rules will finish Shaq. ------------------ The Protrolls.com message boards! Protrolls.com! Don't visit my site.
2 words, Eddie Griffin. Great rebounder, shotblocker, and has excellent foot speed at his size. He will be the next Kevin Garnett. ------------------
Do you think that more you repeat yourself the more likely the chances are of the Rockets getting him? ------------------ If you want it you got it, You just got to believe, Believe in yourself, Cause it's all just a game, We just want to be loved
verse, You did not denounce the first part of Gater's post, so you must be in tacit agreement. Gater wrote: "..........The Rockets MUST have a super defensive rebounder who knows how to outlet for a break. Preferably, this player can block or intimidate shots. A Center is the most likely position for this as Shaq plays much closer to the hoop than Fox or Horry. (I think the new NBA zone is going to plant alot of players on the 3pt. line). As long as they meet the job description - this player can come via ANY method (draft, FA signing, trade, current player improvement). ....." You did mention it only in passing: verse wrote: ...it is absolutely necessary to rebound..." The two major hitches in this scenario are: 1. Finding this elusive 5 that can do everything that GATER mentioned. 2. Realizing that the Clippers have at least as much (if not more team speed) than the Rockets and that Kandi is probably closer to the ideal as this elusive 5 than Cato is. Mango ------------------ Get it right or just don't do it! Resistance is futile....you will be assimilated. Start more Webber threads!
To all, Look, offensively speaking, the key to the Lakers scoring is not Shaq; it is Kobe and the supporting cast. Let Shaq be Shaq. Let him score 20 - 25 max. Throw fouls at him. Contain him in that range. Just shut down the rest. Cover the stop and pop and the outside bombs. What we need is speed and exterior D. Let our slugs in the middle pound Shaq. The Lakers are not speed merchants. We came close several times this year. We were just a couple players short. Atheletes rule! ------------------
Rocket!!!- I agree with you. I've always thought that teams pay way too much attention to Shaq and not enough to Kobe. The key to beating the Lakers is shutting down the Kobe and the rest of the role players. Shaq will not score 100. Let him get his points. I am confident that with agressive double teams and more focus placed on stopping Kobe, the Lakers would sink right back down to earth. Thus far, no playoff team has tried that strategy. They've concentrated on Shaq and let Kobe run wild. The result: 9-0 record in the playoffs for the Lakers. Memo to Laker opponents: If the defense isn't working, try something new! Damned nitwits... ------------------ The Protrolls.com message boards! Protrolls.com! Don't visit my site. [This message has been edited by ZRB (edited May 22, 2001).]
I agree with you 100% To many teams are structuring the way they draft and aquiring players, simply to match up with Shaq. Look at Portland, they dismantled what was once a youthful team for wide and tall bodies simply to cover Shaq. This team gave away its one edge that could have possibly beat the Lakers, that is speed. I am hoping the Rockets do not reach for a big man in the draft, simply to have a tall bum over a quality player that could actually attribute more then 5 fouls, 1 point and 3 boards per game. ------------------
Beating the Lakers is easy. Just follow the advice of Aaron Carter, a junior high phenom who can beat Shaq as proven by his hit single "That's how I beat Shaq" http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/aaron_shaq/ ------------------ "Oh No..." -Bill Walton in 97 just before Stockton's buzzer beater
ROCKET!!!, ZRB & NCSTATEFAN - If stopping Shaq was the defensive focus of the Blazers, Kings, or Spurs then Sabonis, Dale Davis, Divac, & Robinson aren't the players to get it done. These guys would have problems with Kobe on the bench - hey didn't that happen? Reluctantly and for demonstration only, here are some 5's I LIKE: Ben Wallace (outboarded Shaq 15-10 head-to-head on Mar.15th), Jermaine O'Neill, Ervin Johnson, Raef LaFrentz. Couple any of the above "examples" with a SF meeting my prior description and let the fun begin! ------------------ GATER
mango, yes, i do agree with GATER, regarding the "elusive" defensive rebounding center....the "ervin johnson with a jump shot"....the "ben wallace with a jump shot"....the "raef lafrenz with a better body". IMO, what we're lookin for is a rare commodity. in the meantime, i'd take the ben wallace or ervin johnson and add on a high scoring, rebounding power forward (webber). couple that with a small forward ala battier, richardson, or jefferson. then add a joe forte off the bench for 2nd string scoring punch and we can beat the lakers.
Gator, I see we are in violent agreement!. See my earlier post. Odd that the Rocks had Bradley and K. Johnson in here working out on the same day. Think about it. This mirrors pretty much what we just said... Bradley a fairly quick rebounding/scoring SF K.Johnson a rebounding/blocking defensive specialist center Mo Taylor a scoring quick PF With those two and the possibility of a Jefferson/Wallace and a Mobley/Francis Kobe and the supporting unit are smothered and we let Shaq be Shaq, but mitigate him to the 20 -25 point range with our interior foul slugs (read: Cato, Collier, etc.) I said it once and I will say it again, the key to the Lakers is Kobe and cast, not Shaq. The Faker$ are not the Rockets of 94 where you attmepted to guard Olajuwan and hoped for a bad day, but he singlehandedly beat you anyway. Hmmmmmmm..... Nice draft: Bradley, Jefferson & K. Johnson Out! ROCKET!!! ------------------
Please excuse me for resurrecting this but I just can't help myself after watching the Sixers tonight. Hmmm..let me see: Mutombo = 7'2" & 265# / Woods = 7'1" & 250#..... ------------------ GATER
If Kelvin Cato can play terrific defense against Shaquille O'neal in the post(like he did on Super Bowl weekend in January 2000) and Shandon Anderson, the best one-on-one defender on this team, tightly guards Kobe Bryant, we definitely have a chance of beating the Los Angeles Lakers. ------------------
I think that if our ideas of offensive spacing revolve around a center that shoots from well outside the paint, then our power forward should be a quick player. If their center comes outside to guard iur center, their defense is much less effective. If their center stays home with our power forward, he will have trouble keeping up with him and could get into foul trouble. A "mismatch" either way. I also think you would need at least two outside shooters, at least one low post scorer and excellent passing. Defensively the usual against the Lakers, slow down the ball coming down the court to give Shaq less time with the ball. Deny Shaq the ball close in. If you can do that, you are only guarding him with one player and can then focus on Kobe. However, with the Laker's three point shooting from its role players, double-teaming Kobe is not a great option either. I think this is a team you do what you can defensively and try to outscore them. The Lakers are beatable, just ask the Sixers after tonight's game. ------------------
