The facts are out there and they don’t lie. Lower and middle income people and families have already started binefiting from the tax cuts. The biggest lie that I’ve seen in this thread is the notion that taking money out of the governments hands and placing it back in the wage earners hands is a bad thing.
I was on the Material Review Board for Bell (a manufacturer) for several years. If you google that you might understand just how stupid that last quote of yours is.
By the way, I’m non-partisan not Republican. The problem with partisan people like you is that even if the party you don’t align yourself with puts more money in your pocket you’ll b**** about it and find some to claim it’s a bad thing.
Is this a joke? There was demand for ways to be able to see at night before light bulbs were invented. There was demand for ways to travel long distances faster before cars were invented. There was demand for smaller, more mobile versions of computers before laptops were invented. Those things were created because there was demand for such items to improve peoples' lifestyles, I can't believe that actually has to be explained. Do you seriously believe all of those things were created strictly because of capital?
If I put $100 in your pocket that costs you $500 in lost services then you're a negative $400 and that's a bad thing. Your simpleton logic needs an update.
Do you know where taxes go? You can't cut taxes, not increase the deficit, and not lose services. Are you kidding me? lol. Have you invented some magic hand of tax cuts?
- Which services exactly have you lost? - Were you this pissed about the debt that was sure to come and did come when President Obama passed the “Affordable Health Care Act”? - The debt to GDP ratio was 67% in 2008 and inflated to 106% in 2016, the highest it’s been since WWII. If you are concerned about debt I would suggest asking what happened during those 8 years to make it jump so much. - Please, just honest respectful non-partisan political discussions. I don’t have any desire to get into a mud slinging contest.
Taking money from the poor and middle class to give to the ultra-rich will not be a good thing for the US economy. If you believe otherwise you are pretty uneducated.
No one is taking a penny from the poor and middle class to give to the ultra rich. The poor and middle class are keeping more of their money thanks to this tax plan.
That's not true. Some will get a SHORT-TERM break, but most will lose out in the long-term. Also, it is a tax on the poor because they will be paying higher insurance premiums because of the death of Obama care which did lower premiums about $200/mo. So anyone on Obamacare will now lose $2,400 a year which far outpaces the tax cut. The vast majority of the cuts go to the rich, and to fund that not only are they eliminating deductions on the middle class, they will run a higher deficit. A higher deficit is a net drag on the economy and results in lower wages. So effectively they passed a wage tax on the lower and middle class. Finally, the larger deficit means less room for other spending which usually benefits the middle class. It also means higher interest rates which hits anyone with a car loan, student loans, and mortgages - again that hitting the middle class. The higher interest rates also decreases bond prices, so if you are elderly and keep your portfolio rich in bonds - you will take a hit on your wealth - basically it's a wealth tax on these folks. It will also cause the dollar to weaken as U.S. debt becomes less attractive. A weaker dollar means higher costs to imports which - you guesses it - is a higher tax on those who buy **** from Walmart - which is the lower and middle class. So you can try to spin this anyway you want. But it is literally going to hit the very people whose spending fuels this economy. It will be raise growth in the short-term - enough Trump and Republicans hope to win an election, but it will lead to a CRASH soon after that as consumer spending pluments with all of these drags on their financial worth becomes apparent in a few years. So your user name is perfect.
You are wrong. You are hypothesizing and making false claims to try and prove your point. The Affordable Health Care act (Obama Care) is not dead. That’s a lie and has zero basis in fact. The only thing that changed is that tax payers no longer get punished if they choose not to get insurance. The years between 2008 and 2016 saw our debt to GDP ratio balloon from 67% to 106% which was the highest since WWII. What do you think happened in those 8 years? If you are really concerned about national debt you should have been complaining then. When people have more money they spend more money. When people spend more money it’s good for the economy. When the economy is strong the dollar is strong. If your prediction comes true I will be happy to admit you’re right but at this point it’s not looking good for your predictions.
ACA is essentially dead. Remove the mandate and the premiums will skyrocket as the mandate was how you made it affordable. I mean, if you don't understand that you are not going to understand why giving a tax break to the rich is going to crush everyone else. You aren't giving consumers more to spend. You are giving them less. To understand you need to understand how measly of a tax cut this is for the middle class. It's tiny. As in the hundreds of dollars. But higher import costs, higher interest rates, declines in the value of bonds, higher inflation rates, will all result in a lower net effective spend. Obama really only increased the deficit in the first two years. In fact it wasn't even Obama but Bush as well. They worked together to save the economy. It really was a great American moment because apparently the collaboration between Bush and Obama was very deep. Whatever your complaints about either of those two - they were both patriots. Trump is not a patriot. In any case, you simply don't believe basic macroeconomics. I am not sure what else to tell you.
Yes premiums are almost certain to rise over time as people begin dropping their insurance and as the government stops collecting money in the form of penalties from people who chose not to get insurance. How much they will rise is certainly up for debate but we will certainly find out soon enough. However, I disagree strongly about how you think it will effect the economy. And remember, the name “Affordable Health Care” was always a misnomer as the cost of insurance premiums as well as deductibles jumped because of AHC when it was first instituted. Forcing one group of tax payers to purchase insurance or pay a fine for the sole purpose of subsidizing another group of people (many who aren’t tax payers) was always wrong. The real meat in AHC was never the premiums as those went up. The real meat of AHC was the removing of preexisting conditions and forcing companies to keep their employees grown kids on their insurance to the age of 26. Those stipulations are going nowhere. There has never been any correlation to putting more money in consumers hands and recessions, in fact history shows just the opposite is always true. Make sure people have more of their own money to spend or invest as they choose and the economy gets stronger. The government will and should look at welfare programs and start weaning society off of them. The more we increase welfare programs the more we make citizens dependent on that welfare. As people become dependent on that welfare they essentially become indintured servants to the state. Franklin Roosevelt, who is the father of some of our biggest if not the biggest welfare program, had this to say about those programs, “ The lessons of history, confirmed by the evidence immediately before me, show conclusively that continued dependence upon relief induces a spiritual disintegration fundamentally destructive to the national fiber. To dole our relief in this way is to administer a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit.” I’m afraid I’m getting off topic but the tax reform is a good thing. I have to admit that if someone had told me 30 years ago that putting more money in their pockets was a bad thing I would have called them crazy.
Then you have either intentionally been ignoring what people are telling you or you can't comprehend it.
Healthcare costs are still rising, that'll affect the lower and middle class who received a very tiny tax cut. Those years were the recovery years after the most severe economic crisis since the Great Depression. A strong dollar makes imports cheaper and US exports more expensive..... 2017 broke records for trade deficits with China and Mexico. Social programs had to be cut to pay for the tax cuts, and possibly Medicare in 2018, that won't be offset with a few hundred dollars in tax savings....
So your blaming the ballooned debt to GDP ratio, which was larger in those eight years than the previous 60 combined, on recovery? Common my friend you're better than that. Even the most hard core liberals recognize AHC as the primary driver in the escalated debt from the previous 8 years.
Increasing deficit spending during recessions especially severe recessions is smart and common economics. When we already have growth which we do, that is the time to start paying down the debt, not increase it even more. That is also smart economics and not what is being done here.
