ESPN Article on JVG

Just for the sake of argument, your analogy is flawed. You need to take off Steve and Cat and replace them with Cato's equivalant, something like a austin croshere and/or james posey for the first 2 years. And then replace with a Yao's talent last year, like caron butler and/or dajuan wagner.

 

If we were only thinking of development and current ability I make agree with you.

However, unfactored into your analysis, is that Steve/Cat have the basketball IQ's of slugs, and Yao does not.

Yao is much better able to utilize Steve and Cat... than Steve and Cat utilize Yao. Of course that's going to provoke anger and a desire to take the keys away from them. It's not only a matter of what one deserves with pure ability... but also with style of play and ability to utlize those around you.

Steve made minute improvements last year in terms of being an actual PG. Mobley, to my view, made none. Yao is already a terrific focal point of an offense, because he knows that his responsibility is to the team, not his stat line.

 

no
because steve and Cat did not have someone of Yao's talent

Rocket River

 

I'm not disagreeing with you because as much as I love Yao, I think he is overrated at this point in his career. However, Cat and Steve did have someone of Yao's talent and his name was Hakeem. That team was better than last years team even though Cat and Francis are better players now.

That is what gives me so much hope for this season. If Yao can produce what Dream did in his last season here, we are a lock for the playoffs. If Yao can be a 18 and 10 guy then we will be a playoff contender. If Yao can develop into a 22-25 and 10 guy we are championship contenders. Yao does have the "Sexy P" that makes him and this team exciting.

 

They all got it . .that is why I cannot wait until the season starts

Rocket River

feels good to smile again

 

HAHAHA... i never been good at reading stuff, not the simplest things... ive always been limited to reading comprehension. .. no sarcasm intended

 

The 2000-01 Rockets were better than Yao's rookie season Rockets? Because a 37 yo Olajuwon was better than a 22 yo Yao? That's a leap of faith I can't make.

 

a. do i have contempt for yao? not in the least. i'm glad we have him and think there's a good chance he develops into something great and leads us to many great things. i have contempt for the perception that that yao is perfect and dominant and should be running the offense, francis (and to a lesser extent mobley) should learn to live with it, and if not should get the hell out of dodge. now that may be a valid perception, IN THE FUTURE! as of now, mobley and francis play their hardest, have proven they can score, and yao has proven he can play 29 mpg before fatigue sets in and he is just as likely to go 2/9 as 7/10 on any given night. as such, i don't believe he's earned the right to take the team away from steve (and to a lesser extent mobley) just yet and there shouldn't be made every effort to **** all over francis and mobley at every turn while lifting yao up on high.

b. should we use height and proximity to the basket? yeah, if it's better than what else we have. as of now, i don't see how it's that way. like i said, when someone says "give yao the ball more" i (and most others i would think) assume that's meant as give yao the ball in the post more or hit him on the pnr more, not miss a shot in the perfect direction for yao to tip it in or penetrate and hand the ball to yao for a dunk more. the latter shots aren't things that show how efficient you are but do make your percentage look better. i pointed out cato for that reason. cato has a great percentage and is tall and close to the basket, but only through tip-ins and alley-oops does he have a good percentage, not through "getting cato the ball." now obviously, this occurs with yao to a much lesser extent, but he does get offensive rebounds followed by tipins or easy dunks. he averaged shooting 4.9-9.8 last year. take away 1-1 on a non-earned dunk and he's 3.9-8.9 (44%). now steve and cat get unearned dunks as well (fast breaks, moving to the basket) but it's not of the same magnitude as yao and thus yao looks better in relation to them in efficiency than he should. that was my only point, that yao in the post vs francis/mobley iso or jumpshot isn't that much different in efficiency.

*note: yao backing ratliff down and slamming on him is earned, just in case you think i'm counting all dunks

c. verse: just b/c steve and mobley w/o any help in the best conference ever "haven't led us anywhere" doesn't mean they can't contribute alot of talent to a team and doesn't mean they still aren't very good offensive options who yao hasn't overtaken yet. just b/c a team struggles doesn't mean you try to mess with the best players from that team, you replace the crap or add a huge talent like yao at the top. if we are ever to win a title with this group, it will have to be b/c yao is our best player and is dominant, steve doesn't have the skills or physical gifts to do it. but until yao is ready, he shouldn't just get the keys b/c francis and mobley can only win 45 and 43 in a badass conference. unless you think yao would've done any better, then i don't think he's earned it.

d. haven: mythical bb iq taken into account in my reasoning. however, it's harder to take advantage of bb iq if the double teams stop and people can outphysical you 1 on 1 like people did to yao the whole last half of the season. i loved december. yao seemed fresh, he could score on people, and when people doubled, he knew what to do most of the time and he played a big part in the offense and got 17 ppg. but as soon as he hit the wall (and for all games from that point forward), the doubles stopped and yao had to show he could beat his man and earn a double and he couldn't and he became far less efficient. but the calls to get him the ball never stopped, as if we was still at the level that got him all the hype. again, yao smartness will one day be very good for this team. and yes, his decision making vs steve's will be very good one day. but until his physical play can get to the point that his physical + iq talent overtakes steve's, he still shouldn't be the focal point.

as for the stat line comment, do you really think steve and cat go out of their way to get stats to the detriment of the team. i guess you (and others) can, but i see no evidence of it. it you wanna call it a trust issue, i could buy that, but never a selfishness issue. they want to win and cuttino in particular seems to hate losing too much for me to believe he's going for stats. i think it's more "i think there's a better chance we score if i take this shot than if i pass it to eg or posey," and that can come off as selfishness, but i think it's just 4 years of having poor teammates around you saying you've got to do it or it won't get done. bullard never seemed to have problem getting passes from steve or cat, hakeem got the ball when he had those 6 great weeks, mo t got the ball at the end of his 1st season and for the end of last season when they all showed they could be counted on. people who don't show they can be counted on (shandn andersn maybe being the best example) don't earn trust from steve and cat. maybe that's good, maybe it's just playing the percentages, maybe it destroys the team. i don't know, but i think that's the thinking.




man i'm typing too much.

 

aren't we saying the different faces of the same coin?

 

And it's all Steve and Cat's fault, right? Everyone criticizes the decision making of our guards, but can you put the blame solely on them? I'm sorry but some of that is on Rudy and some on the inept teammates they've had. So I suppose you'd take the keys away from them when they led us back in that game in Boston this year? Or when Steve scored 44 against the Lakers? What about all the buzzer beating threes that Steve hit? Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley are the heart and soul of the Rockets. Yao may be a part of that one day, but he still has a lot to prove.

 

Although, technically I believe in the "give the ball to Yao" idea.

But in concept, it's not necessarily done (or needed) in order to get Yao to take more shots. As someone mentioned earlier, Yao is a great passer. Use it!

Remember, giving the ball to Yao creates opportunities for others to score easily. Yao doesn't HAVE TO take the shot. He should take what the defense gives him.

So, simply giving the ball to Yao will not solve the problem. It might heighten his ppg stats, but not create winning.

Also, under Rudy, "giving the ball to Yao" meant Yao was to go into ISO mode. That was Rudy's idea was for "creative offense." Ugh...

Under JVG, "giving the ball to Yao" means that there will be more cutters moving without the ball while Yao is in motion. Count on it! That will be one of the best changes we should see this year.

Oh, and Mobley should be on the receiving end of Yao's passes. So, Yao will in essence be making Mobley a better player. Mobley will be scoring the same, but in different ways (off passes under the basket, or off a pick for a shot).

 

I'm trying to remember.. . . . Was this how Patrick was utilized?
[It was stated that the Offense would look alot like the old knicks]
I don't remember Houston slash much. . .he is more of a shooter
Spreee. . . . I can see that . . but he a natural slasher

Rocket River

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

Utilizing Yao more is simply to get the ball to someone who plays with the team concept in mind. It's not that I need to bash on Steve and Cat but when a sportswriter recently wrote of the last-year's Rockets that "the inmates ran the asylum," well, that's the truth.

Steve and Cat and Mooch have too much of the same mind-set out there. Too much playground junk. Not enough team play.

Let Yao distribute the ball some more. I'll go one further. Get Mo out there to pass. He can't board (maybe Ewing and JVG will help in this) but he can flat-out move the ball.

 

BB IQ is mythical? Damn. I use the term because I think it's insulting to assume that because someone doesn't play smart on the court, doesn't mean they're an idiot in other ways.

But I find it hard to believe that anyone could claim that there aren't players who play "smarter" than others. If that were true, Stockton would have been a career 6/4/1 guy .

Fastest way for Yao to gain in skills and develop: let him try. I'm not saying that the offense should run exclusively for him, but the more opportunities you give him, the more he's going to improve his skills, and figure out how to succeed.

Steve is young, but he's not really at the point where improvement is going to be dramatic anymore. We know what we have there: an excellent player who's not quite good enough to carry a team. Maybe he'll be one of the players who continues to get better... but I'd rather play the percentages and bet that Yao's more likely to become the player who can dominate.

Interesting argument.

But the real problem with that, is that great players utilize their role players, even if they suck. Remember Chucky Brown? He was a lot worse than some of the role players we had last year. And Drexler, at times, made him look like a star.

To win, you have to do that... almost nobody, except perhaps a dominant big man, can single-handedly carry a team in the way Steve and Cat seem to want to.

I dunno. Maybe it is trust. But isn't the overall effect the same, regardless? It's still a bad habit that seriously affects the team. I cringe whenever I hear Steve say "I want to be a leader!", because in his mind, that seems to translate into "I'm going to take more shots and score more!"

Like I said about IQ, Mobley and Steve being selfish (or not trusting) on the basketball court has almost nothing to do with the kind of people they are off the court, to me at least. I'm not condemning them as people. I just think that they're not quite as good as they think, or as good as we hoped they would be 3 years ago... and that maybe it's time to try something different... that might not pay off in 2 months... but might pay huge dividents in a couple of years.




man i'm typing too much. [/B][/QUOTE]

 

That's what I've been optimistically saying for the last 3+ years. If we get to the playoffs, regardless of record or seed, praise he should get.

As for Yao - heck, if any of our guards were able to effectively use the pick and ROLL play, then Yao would have had about 10-15 dunks a game. Even if he sucks in every other area of basketball, he would still score 20-30 a night on that play alone. Given that he doesn't suck, it should be undefendeable - Yao is too big and rolls to well. Another defender HAS to rotate, and a good/smart offense will be in position to take advantage of that every time, meaning relatively uncontested layups or wide-open jumpers. The Rockets got neither last year.

 

The talk about JVG's system in NY was brought up before...The way I see it is that JVG will bring at least a more balanced offense/defense to the Rockets. Not necessarily a great "motion offense" like Pete Carril (Sac), but a LOT more options than Rudy ever implemented.

Regarding Houston and Spree. Well, yeah, Houston is a shooter. Spree is a slasher. But the "dump it down" to Ewing had more team movement compared to the Rockets ISO shuffle with Francis and Mobley (Under Rudy).

As far as why JVG didn't utilize "slashing" as part of his offense more...Although, Ewing was a good passer, not great...JVG didn't have Yao.

He does now. That's the key.

 

JVG's job will be a lot easier and enjoyable if SF gets his head on straight and decides that winning, and winning by the coaches way is the goal. Otherwise this team will go nowhere.

 

delete

 

Exactly!

Passing to a teammate, and then they miss the open shot is one thing.

But passing to a teammate, in which you put them in a bad situation to take a rushed shot, or ISO is another thing.

And that's one of the problems that I have with Francis's "passing skill." He just passes out of necessity, rather than opportunity.

He doesn't set-up his man for the receiving part. He just tries to score, and then if the option is not there, THEN he passes.

Passing due to necessity. Francis has yet to show me that he can distribute the ball in a way that improves his teammates games.

He does not make his teammates better. That's the job of a "leader" and especially a poing guard.