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Who does Detroit leave unprotected for the Bobcats?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by GATER, Feb 2, 2004.

  1. GATER

    GATER Contributing Member

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    The Pistons only have 8 contracts for 2004-05 and every team must leave at least one player available in the Charlotte expansion draft. Here are the 8 contracts in decreasing contract value order:


    Richard Hamilton ($7.3m)
    Ben Wallace
    Chauncey Billups
    Corliss Williamson
    Elden Campbell
    Chucky Atkins
    Darko Milicic (rookie scale)
    Tayshaun Prince ($1.0m)

    Corliss is the most likely IMO. His 3 years @ $18m may make the Bobcats hiccup with only a $30m cap. Campbell would be gone in a heartbeat with only 1 year remaining. But Corliss has trade value to the 'Cats and he could be as good as gone.

    If you're the Pistons, who do you leave available to the Bobcats?
     
  2. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    So, the Pistons are going to have cap-space that offseason? How much? They might be looking at it as an opportunity to shed some more contract dollars so they have more to offer FAs. Williamson looks like a good choice to me as well, unless Campbell is making a boatload of money.
     
  3. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    I would say Atkins. In fact Atkins and Sura are the two players being talked about to be moved to move salary to have more money for Okur.
     
  4. GATER

    GATER Contributing Member

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    JV -
    The Pistons are in an odd situation. If they renounce every FA (Sura the biggest at $6m, but also Okur, Rebraca, Lindsey Hunter, Fowlkes and Darvin Ham) they will have a shade over $37m committed for 04-05. If they lose Corliss to the Bobcats, that number decreases to ~$32m. Decent cap money.

    But in either case, they need 4 more roster spots filled and with renouncing FA's comes losing their Bird Rights for a year and also the MLE. I'll be curious to see how the handle it, but I would not be at all surprised to see both Sura and Williamson on different teams next season. BTW - the biggest raise they can give Okur is MLE $ unless they renounce Sura.
     
  5. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

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    They'll likely try to wrangle a deal with Charlotte for Corliss or Atkins or possibly Campbell to free up money and let them retain Okur.
     
  6. Hobbs

    Hobbs Member

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    Detroit has to protect Mehmet Okur as well. He's a restricted FA and they need to protect him to maintain their rights to him.

    The definites on their protection list are Ben Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Richard Hamilton, Mehmet Okur, Tayshaun Prince, and Darko Milicic. That's 6 guys. There will be some question marks about the rest. They may find it easier to keep Atkins and Williamson and work it so Charlotte takes Elden Campbell. Campbell has one year remaining on his deal, so he'd be fairly attractive with the right incentive (cash and/or pick(s)). If they left Atkins exposed, he'd probably be taken as well. They should be able to get enough cap room to make sure Mehmet Okur remains on the team.

    They've also got their second first rounder from last year, Carlos Delfino, coming over next year. He does not have to be protected and is projected as a backup 1,2,3 type (he's 6'6"). He's doing really well in Europe and they're excited about him.

    Detroit has worked themselves into a great position.
     
  7. yaopao

    yaopao Contributing Member

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    Chucky Atkins isn't exactly a player who you must keep at all-costs.
     
  8. emjohn

    emjohn Contributing Member

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    They will hold onto Campbell. He's giving them decent post play, and that's tough to give up.
     
  9. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

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    GATER, i like to think i know more than my fair share of the CBA, but explain renouncing FA's. from what i remember, they count 150% against the cap until renounced. the obvious reason to not renounce is losing bird rights. but you said it's for one year. you mean you can only sign that guy for whatever you have under the cap for one year and then after that year get his bird rights back or does that mean a bird rights contract is one year shorter than normal. i assume the former, but then how did san antonio do what they did this summer with duncan? they seemed to have tons of cap room yet i know they didn't renounce duncan (b/c they signed him to a max contract). did they just still have enough money to go after a max contract guy even with duncan counting 150% against the cap until he signed or is there some loop hole i'm missing?


    you said you lose the MLE, too. so i renounce my free agents, get say 12M under the cap, and sign a max contract guy. i now can't sign any of my old FA's to contracts for whatever they want b/c they lose their bird rights and i can't use the MLE to get other players. am i stuck getting people for the minimum at that point?

    the whole 150% thing seems to suck.
     
  10. GATER

    GATER Contributing Member

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    f4p.....

    1) The 150% is not across the board it can vary from 120% to 300% depending upon the type of contract expiring.

    2) My recollection is that Ferry, Parker, Bowen, Rose and Ginobilli where the only 2003-04 contracts on the SA payroll. The total amount of all 5 of their contracts was less than $14m. Renouncing Duncan was not an issue because they were that far under the cap. Once signed, Duncan took their payroll to ~$26.5m.

    3) Once a team renounces a player, they give up their Larry Bird, Early Bird, and non-Bird exceptions until the following June 30th (one year from the renouncement).

    Yep. The logic is this....you can have cap space or if you're over the cap, you can have exceptions to re-sign your own players or a MLE to sign your own or other teams' FA's. But you can't have both.

    Personally, I don't see it as a situation that "sucks". It forces a team to make good financial decisions regarding their own players before they enter the FA market. Do you think it would be fair to allow teams to hold players' Bird Rights (the "exceptions"), enter the FA market, and then come back and excercise their Bird Right exceptions? What's the point of having a cap? That makes it too easy to hoard players IMO.


    I hope this helps!!! :)
     
  11. Hobbs

    Hobbs Member

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    emjohn, Campbell's been horrible this year. He was ok early on, but he's done nothing for like 30 games now.
     
  12. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

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    thanks, mostly as i thought the situation was.


    the more i run it through my head, i guess the more i see the potential for an insanely high salary figure using my method. SA could've signed two max guys, duncan, and then still the rest of their FA's which would obviously not be good for enforcing a cap.
     
  13. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I think you make the situation unduly confusing by mentioning this rule. You may lose your Bird Rights for only a year, but the player will most likely need to sign with someone in the intervening time and if he signs with a new team, the original team's Bird Rights are extinguished for good while the new team starts their own clock. In 99% of the cases, renouncing a free agent is tantamount to giving up his Bird Rights for good in practice.
     
  14. ayears

    ayears Member

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    :confused: Sorry,I don't quite to catch on. Could you mind explaining it in details or offerring a link ???
     
  15. GATER

    GATER Contributing Member

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    JV -
    Point taken. I probably could have stated it better. It was an afterthought in the larger issue of how renouncements do or don't impact caps.

    I left the door slightly open because the renounced player may still be signed by the cap space which has been created or offered all or some of the MLE. In this instance, Bird Rights are retained. It is also possible to SnT a renounced player. But you're correct...these things don't happen frequently.
     
  16. GATER

    GATER Contributing Member

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    3) Once a team renounces a player, they give up their Larry Bird, Early Bird, and non-Bird exceptions until the following June 30th (one year from the renouncement).

    The current CBA provides methods for over the cap teams to re-sign and give raises to their own players with "exceptions" to the salary cap. These exceptions are generally referred to as "Bird Rights". The rights are obtained after so many seasons on a contract with the most often used being Full/Larry Bird (3 years) or Early Bird (2 years).

    After a players' contract expires, they count against the teams' salary cap until the player is renounced or re-signed. Relating it to the above discussion, next summer the Pistons have Bobby Sura's Full Bird Rights so his $6m counts 150% against the cap until Sura is renounced or re-signed. This 150% keeps the Pistons above the cap and dictates how the can/will handle FA signings...their own or other teams'.


    http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm
     
  17. ayears

    ayears Member

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    Well. While I'm reading your reply post..... :) I wanna to say:"So nice of you,GATER." :D
     

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