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Where does James Harden rate All Time in shooting guards ?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by kingkingston, Dec 10, 2017.

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Where does James Harden rate All Time in shooting guards ?

  1. 2

    27 vote(s)
    30.7%
  2. 3

    18 vote(s)
    20.5%
  3. 4

    15 vote(s)
    17.0%
  4. 5

    20 vote(s)
    22.7%
  5. 6-10

    8 vote(s)
    9.1%
  1. rezdawg

    rezdawg Contributing Member

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    We lost in the 2nd round to an inferior team last year.

    This year is a different story, but the jury is still out for end of season success....we'll see what happens.
     
  2. CCorn

    CCorn Member

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    Multiple factors. Hardware (even if you only look at the 2 chips he won finals mvp he’s still #2 amongst shooting guards) longevity, peer recognition, and stats. He was a hell of a scorer, and although advanced stats say he wasn’t as good as people thought... he’s still decently high on most leaderboards (PER, WS etc)

    Historically, the 2 has been a weak position after Jordan.
     
  3. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Ringz

    Sticking around

    the opinion of others

    Really? Which ones?
     
  4. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    2nd seed 60 win team is an inferior team to 55 win 3rd seed team.

    You off your rocker.
     
  5. rezdawg

    rezdawg Contributing Member

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    They didnt have Kawhi Leonard in game 6 and Tony Parker missed 4 games....heard of them?
     
  6. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Yea, its the Spurs, they do that. Look at their record this year without Leonard.

    You need to wake up and realize how ****ing good James Harden is.
     
  7. rezdawg

    rezdawg Contributing Member

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    Doesnt matter what their record is this year...the team we lost to in the playoffs was an inferior team to the Rockets...and not the 60 regular season team.

    Also, there are other factors contributing to the Spurs this season, so irrelevant point. The Rockets had a better squad in the playoffs, but Harden decided not to attempt a shot until 6 minutes left in the 2nd quarter.
     
  8. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    When people have the opinion that Kobe Bryant is the second greatest 2-guard in NBA history, or the greatest Laker in NBA history, they are usually going by different criteria in their mental ranking than what the usual "objective metrics" measure. In their mental ranking, they are less interested in trying to systemitize how many wins Kobe Bryant added to this team over a stretch of games, and more interested in the question "In a do or die game, or a do or die situation at the end of a game, who do I want on my team?"

    The assumption there is some players have the ability to turn up their level of play by sheer mental fortitude in combination with innate ability, while others who may put up better numbers in their particular team context on average may not have that ability. Whether that assumption is true and applicable to Kobe Bryant, I can't say, but that's what they believe. And they'll argue that all the objective metrics out there don't account for this.
     
  9. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Of course it matters. Everything is a data point. You are pointing to one game in a 7 game series making dumb arguments off of anecdotal evidence. Even making an argument off of one series over the course of careers is stupid.

    Kobe lost to numerous inferior teams.
     
  10. rezdawg

    rezdawg Contributing Member

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    My comment has nothing to do with Kobe. All I said was the Rockets lost to an inferior team...which they did. That 60 win Spurs team had Kawhi and Parker....the 55 win Rockets team had all their key players.

    There was no reason for the Harden led Rockets to lose to a Kawhi/Parkerless Spurs. You're the one that called me "off my rocker".

    So yeah, you're wrong about that...move on.
     
  11. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Uh no, they were missing Nene, and Harden may have had a concussion or was flat out burnt up from carrying the team for 90 games.

    There was plenty of reasons we could have lost to the Spurs, and we did.

    Stop being obtuse, your argument is dumb.
     
  12. rezdawg

    rezdawg Contributing Member

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    Harden may have had a concussion...lololol.

    Okay...the Spurs still played without 2 of their best 3 players.

    How many win shares did Nene have? :rolleyes:

    The Spurs were barely the better team in the regular season and were at a much bigger disadvantage in the playoffs. To sit there and think that the Spurs were definitely the better team on paper at that point is silly....but not as ridiculous as you telling me im off my rocker.

    Also, this has nothing to do with Harden vs Kobe, in case you missed that. Guessing you missed that since you brought up Kobe losing to inferior teams.
     
  13. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Why don't you remind me of what your point is then.
     
  14. rezdawg

    rezdawg Contributing Member

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    Bobby was pointing to how Morey's metrics trump anything Barkley has to say...so I responded that those metrics havent really amounted to much over the 8 or 9 years with Morey as GM...because championships and playoff success matter. Losing in the 2nd round is not an impressive feat.

    Essentially, until the Rockets prove they can be consistent winners in the playoffs, there is no reason to hype Morey's analytics over ex NBA player's opinions.

    This year could be different, but the jury is still out....
     
  15. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    The hype over analytics has been validated by league wide trends. Heavy emphasis on the 3 ball, small ball lineups, and deemphasis of post game and midrange. The NBA’s official website has added a ton of advanced stats, and more and more teams are incorporating analytics in their decision making.

    As for using all-in-one stats to rank players, that’s doesn’t really have anything to do with Morey or the usage of analytics in NBA front offices. Teams aren’t making serious decisions based on PER or WS/48.
     
    tmactoyao likes this.
  16. rezdawg

    rezdawg Contributing Member

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    Not saying analytics is BS...just saying there is no reason to believe Morey over an NBA commentator or vice versa. Morey isnt doing anything that other GMs arent doing. And Morey may have shown that he will always field a competitive squad, but he still hasnt shown he can field a championship level squad until the team can consistently contend in the playoffs. And I consider that WCF appearance more of a fluke than anything, as evidenced by the fact that it's a clear outlier in the Rockets playoff runs with Morey. All GMs use anayltics. But that analytic approach also doesnt value team chemistry, which is a big knock, specially in relation to Morey and his movement of players (assets).
     
  17. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Jury is not out.

    Analytics are merely measures of probability of success by studying success.

    Morey does not need to win in order to hype anything.

    Your argument is akin to saying Isaac Newton's "Physics" are not worthwhile, because he never won a fist fight.
     
    hakeem94 likes this.
  18. rezdawg

    rezdawg Contributing Member

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    Ugh....I wasnt talking about the jury being out on analytics...

    I was talking about Morey building one of the best teams in basketball. Yes, the Rockets are damn good this season...but until they can consistently win in the playoffs, they havent built ****. Soooooo, the jury is out on this current squad....they have to win in the playoffs or show that they can actually compete for a title, before I give any award to Morey.

    Losing in the 2nd round to a team missing 2 of its best 3 players doesnt make me think the Rockets are championship quality. Therefore, they need to prove it...and I have high hopes that they will...but the jury is still out.
     
    hakeem94 and daywalker02 like this.
  19. lionaire

    lionaire Member

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    A ring would propel him to #3 over Wade imo.
     
  20. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Yes, fantastic individual player..... it's not tennis single.

    He makes guys around him better, but just not enough to get to the Finals every other year. Or win it all barring this year.
     

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