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Trump: Tribune Of Poor White People

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by shastarocket, Aug 3, 2016.

  1. shastarocket

    shastarocket Contributing Member

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    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=10645163&postcount=6630

    el gnomo beat me to it, but I think this article deserves its own thread.

    Although it is presented as a look into the mind of some Trump voters, it is far more substantive than that. I don't think I've ever felt more sympathetic towards the hardcore Republicans in the backwoods of America.

    Please, just give it a read and let's try to have a real discussion about this :grin:

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/trump-us-politics-poor-whites/
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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  3. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Interesting article about the prejudice of the elite against the white working class. It is also good to see that conservatives are starting to see that there are structural components of poverty and tax breaks and trade deals will not help. I think that Trump is an indication that the poor white working class is rejecting conservative economic orthodoxy and also starting to rejecting a religion focused manly on opposition to abortion and gays. Trump makes very little appeal to these issues.

    The Bernie Sanders campaign of course did talk to the economic problems of these poor whites which the Obama Clinton Dems never did in an effective manner. As Bernie who is strongly supported by poor rural whites in his state said in his most populist speech:
    "I will be damned if I am going to let the white working class keep voting for Republicans."

    As a lawyer who at least has frequent professional interaction with the poor whites the author talks about, it is interesting for me to see that their culture and family structure and problems such as with substance abuse and even law enforcement is in some ways more similar to that of the poor black underclass than the more upper middle class.

    Of course per black lives matters poor whites are still much less likely to be brutalized by the police.
     
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  4. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    People need to stop blaming trade deals as the reason for the loss of manufacturing. The U.S. manufactures more goods in the U.S. today than at any point in history - it's made a comeback. But it had done that comeback by eliminating jobs not through moving them overseas but automation. It's a 6 to 1 ration of jobs lost to automation vs. moving jobs overseas.

    The real problem is education. There are jobs but they require a college degree. But education isn't valued and that's been the problem. Until you move people in mass to education we will continue to have mass poverty.
     
  5. Jugdish

    Jugdish Member

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    "The rich get richer till the poor get educated"
     
  6. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    I can totally empathize. However, as Obama said, the manufacturing jobs aren't coming back. Unfortunately, people hear what they want to hear from Trump because the alternative and truth means really bad news for them.
     
  7. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    That's not what Obama said. He said the "jobs of the past" are not coming back. These jobs he refers to are very much "jobs of the present" which happen to be in a country other than the US.
     
  8. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Which jobs are you talking about and how would Trump bring them back? Exactly what would he do?

    You think companies and other nations are going to let you undo trade deals? And do you think that will actually bring more jobs back? It won't - you'd have to put tariffs so high to make companies reverse their capital investments overseas.

    So you really would only hurt small businesses who can only afford to manufacture in China - or else never get started. I work with one such business. A production run in China is 150k vs. 3 or 4x here. They have 200k to spend on a run. You prevent them from manufacturing overseas, and that's the end of the business.

    For the big company that has it's call center in India, you can't do anything to them. They are a multinational company. They aren't importing anything.

    For Apple - you could put a tariff on iPhones - but that won't make Apple move its operations to the U.S. - it has so much money invested in China it's not going to simply get up and move. Plus it will still be cheaper to manufacture there than here. All you will success in doing is pissing off China and raising the price of an iPhone from $600 to $900 - thus essentially taxing consumers and hurting the stock of Apple.

    People like Trump and yourself are so naive and lack such a fundamental understanding of business that putting this kind of thinking in power would lead to another recession and make people suffer even more.

    Trump is not a businessman. He's a real estate tycoon, and entertainer, and marketer. He has never built a real business. It's like handing over our economy to Beyonce or Oprah.

    Trump is not a Buffet or a Cuban or a Gates or anyone.
     
  9. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    This article ignores the big ol' racist elephant in the room.

    A lot of what defines the white working class - regardless of economic situation, has been racism, think back to the Archie Bunker days. James Surowiecki has a good explanation.
     
  10. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    Well, count me a smug Lefty, because the only thing I look down on poor whites for is voting against their own interests.

    They think social programs are socialist, and hate them because "socialist" is just like . . . bad.

    They vote to support the rights of the wealthy, as if their kids need a clear path to become billionaires.

    They hate "big government" (coz socialist, natch) but love to dump countless dollars toward the military, which is . . . big government. And these untold sums of money could be used for something else.

    The same argument I am making has been used against African-Americans: at some point, you have to become responsible for yourself.

    So now they love billionaire Trump. Last time it was Romney. G.W. Bush spent TRILLIONS on an unjustified war, and now many of those who voted for him are like "Where's all the money in this wealthy country?" It's in the Cheney club's pockets, dumbasses.

    No special sympathy for these self-destructive voters. Especially since their irrationality affects the rest of us too. G.W. Bush-->Iraq II-->ISIS.
     
  11. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    Gee, me no know why west virginia not vote for hillary.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yInSPR-2ImE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  12. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    because black lung disease makes it too hard to make it to the polls?
     
  13. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    Coal is a dying source of energy in this country not because of government but because of natural gas.
     
  14. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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    The Clinton-Coal comment is actually pretty illustrative of the difference between her (along with every other rational politician) and Trump.

    Even though I don't think she is wrong about policy or fact-- coal cannot compete with other sources of energy, the way she said it was hurtful and insensitive. Clinton knows it, too, so she apologized and explained what she meant. Hillary might well be the terrible soulless person that Republicans accuse her to be, but at least she knows how people with souls behave like.

    People in coal country probably still dislike her and disagree with her policy. However, least she doesn't look totally heartless to the rest of the country and amplify the bad publicity.

    Compared this to Trump: After the initial verbal exchange, he still keep going about how he was "viciously attacked" by Mr. Khan, questions Mr. Khan's motives and refuses to apologize for what is widely viewed as a insensitive remark.

    So now he looks like an ******* not only to Mr. Khan, American Muslims and military families, but also to the wider public, including a good # of people who agree with him regarding the Muslim ban policy that caused Mr. Khan ot speak out in the first place.
     
  15. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    Makes up about a third of electricity-producing energy. Not going anywhere any time soon.

    http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=427&t=3
     
  16. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    Coal's share of energy output in this country is dropping every year. Our local electric company and utility companies all over the United States are not looking to building new coal plants. My local utility are looking to replace coal plants with natural gas plants, this is in Indiana and not California.
     
  17. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Out of curiousity I checked to see how much does a coal miner make.

    http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Coal_Mine_Worker/Hourly_Rate
    A Coal Mine Worker earns an average wage of $21.63 per hour.

    or
    http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Industry=Coal_Mining/Hourly_Rate
    between 18.22 - 27.66


    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Coal_and_jobs_in_the_United_States
    These jobs are in decline
    I think Alot of these people in these areas want AT LEAST what their daddy had
    Which probably is not going to happen
    (I hear we are the first generation to do worse than our parents)
    once something peaks and tops out . .. . you have to look for a new plateau
    or enjoy the ride down.

    This is like someone railing against the decline of Blacksmithing and horseshoeing
    Those are skills that maybe able to find niche boutique markets
    but overall . . .not overly necessary

    Rocket River
     
  18. Buck Turgidson

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    NSFW

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dlNyN8qNvgc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  19. shastarocket

    shastarocket Contributing Member

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    A lot of it is about pride and heritage. Coal is a part of the West Virginia identity. I don't believe they are so ignorant to believe that the government should prop up a dying industry. But it isn't too far-fetched to expect some sort of help in repurposing the local labor force.

    They feel marginalized, and we can all sympathize with that.
     
  20. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    government should do retraining programs of course, see we do not need big government right? However, that will not solve their problems over night. Actually this will be a growing problem for more and more industries in many countries as more jobs are automated.
     

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