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Ukraine scandal Megathread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Sep 18, 2019.

  1. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    trump made promises to an unnamed foreign leader... that resulted in an intelligence official to file a formal whistleblower report.



     
  2. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  3. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  4. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  5. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  6. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Good, they should be scared of potential jail time. They don’t need to be leaking classified intelligence to the press.
     
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  7. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    But just wait for the Barr report on FISA abuses, and the phony Dossier.
     
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  8. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    The leaks coming out now seem to be a warning shot that this whistleblower will go through the media if they have to, and bring down the acting DNI in the process.

    The acting DNI would be wise to meet with the gang of 8 ASAP and get this off his plate. Pulling a Bill Barr impression to try and cover for Trump just won’t work here because obviously this whistleblower is saying loud and clear that he or she is going to the media very soon, and it’s going to be ugly.

    What’s scary to me most about Trump is everyone surrounding him now and in the GOP is firming staking their ground in the thought that Trump will essentially be president for life. If Trump loses in 20 a lot of people around him will be in deep sh$&.
     
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  9. mick fry

    mick fry Member

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    Yall need to stop interrupting NewRox, he’s on a roll.
     
  10. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  11. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  12. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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    Here is a key paragraph... yea, I don’t think this is at all normal, even under the new norm.



    Intelligence Community Inspector General Michael Atkinson determined that the complaint was credible and troubling enough to be considered a matter of “urgent concern,” a legal threshold that ordinarily requires notification of congressional oversight committees.

    But acting director of national intelligence Joseph Maguire has refused to share details about Trump’s alleged transgression with lawmakers, touching off a legal and political dispute that has spilled into public and prompted speculation that the spy chief is improperly protecting the president.
     
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  13. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Thanks Obama!


    (someone had to do it...)
     
  14. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Trump: I will give you my word to do your bidding

    Putin: Destroy America

    Trump: Yes, my master
     
  15. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  16. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Russiiaaaaaaaa... hisssssssssssssss....
     
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  17. mick fry

    mick fry Member

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    Breaking news whistleblower identified.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    I find it hard to understand how anyone, supporter or not, can view the actions of this administration and not be concerned. I mean, other than mick try...
     
  19. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    This may be the beginning of the end for our mistake...

    The whistleblower story involves Trump himself

    Shockingly, it turns out that President Trump appears to be directly implicated in the remarkable tale of the mysterious whistleblower complaint that has yet to be transmitted to Congress, in direct violation of the law.

    The new details emerging about Trump’s involvement in this story are damning on their own. But they also illustrate a broad theme of the Trump presidency: How his enablers keep wheeling the machinery of government into action to insulate his corruption from accountability.

    The Post reports that the whistleblower who submitted a complaint to the intelligence community’s inspector general did so after growing alarmed by a call Trump held with an unspecified foreign leader. Former officials tell The Post that the whistleblower was particularly troubled by some sort of “promise” Trump made to that leader.

    This new reporting also sheds light on how this process has been deeply perverted to prevent the facts of this situation from reaching Congress.

    To quickly recap, acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph Maguire failed to transmit the whistleblower’s complaint to Congress’ intelligence committees, even though the DNI inspector general deemed it “credible” and of “urgent concern,” triggering a statutory requirement that he do so. Maguire has continued to refuse, citing specious legal reasoning.

    Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, has raised the alarm about this, and the inspector general, Michael Atkinson, is scheduled to testify to the committee Thursday in closed-door session. Maguire may testify next week.

    The Post report further demonstrates how this all happened.

    The process is getting perverted
    As The Post reports, Maguire declined to forward the complaint to Congress after consulting with the Justice Department for legal guidance. Maguire supposedly believes he faces a real legal predicament -- the details of the complaint are outside his jurisdiction. In one letter to Schiff, Maguire had already justified withholding it by claiming it involves “potentially privileged communications by persons outside the intelligence community.”

    We now know that one of these “persons” is likely Trump himself. So the Justice Department apparently advised Maguire not to forward the complaint to Congress, likely on this basis.

    The statute defines an “urgent concern” as a “serious” abuse or violation of the law “relating” to the “operation of an intelligence activity” within the DNI’s “responsibility or authority.” If the inspector general deems the complaint about such a matter “credible,” the DNI “shall” forward it to Congress.

    But the DNI -- apparently at the Justice Department’s urging -- is claiming that the event in question fell outside this statutory language. What to make of this argument?

    A deeply strained argument
    Ned Price, a national security adviser to former president Barack Obama, told me that the key here might lie in the statute’s use of the word “relating.” If Trump’s phone call to a foreign leader related to intelligence activity within the DNI’s responsibility -- that is, if the call implicated that activity -- that might be grounds for a whistleblower complaint that fell squarely within the statute’s parameters.

    “The word relating gives a lot of wiggle room,” Price said. “It has to be an issue relating to the intelligence community,” in which a “reasonable person” would see a “direct connection to the intelligence community.”

    For instance, Price noted hypothetically, if Trump made a promise to Russian president Vladimir Putin or North Korean leader Kim Jong Un -- two leaders with whom Trump communicated over the summer -- that compromised or seriously strained ongoing intelligence operations, that would clearly “relate” to ongoing intelligence activity.

    Such a matter, then, would have to be passed on to Congress by law, Price noted. And the claim that it doesn’t fall within the statute because it involves activity committed by someone outside the intelligence community -- i.e., Trump -- would be particularly strained.

    This would be even more glaring if it involved Trump making a promise that didn’t have any discernible connection to the national interest, and appeared to be more in the interests of the foreign power in question -- or even in his own direct interests. Obviously, given all we’ve seen, these seem perfectly plausible.

    In such a scenario, if the Justice Department is advising the DNI to break the law to prevent the details from being shared with Congress, that perverts the process and enables Trump’s corruption. And let’s not forget that the inspector general looked at these details and concluded the report of Trump’s call did fall within the statute’s parameters.

    It’s possible that the Justice Department and the DNI inspector general have a legitimate disagreement about this matter. But the Justice Department’s position, conveniently, makes it impossible for Congressional oversight to shed light on this matter one way or the other, since it keeps the details from Congress. Given what we’ve seen from the Justice Department thus far, we shouldn’t give it the benefit of the doubt.

    One complication is that presidents should have the power to keep some private communications with other world leaders from Congress, for good reasons. But as Asha Rangappa outlines in this thread, this power should not be unlimited.

    And what we’ve seen repeatedly is that Trump is abusing such powers, notably for reasons that don’t appear driven by any conception of what’s in the national interest.

    Trump isn’t operating in the country’s interests
    Recall that Trump went to extraordinary lengths to keep top aides from learning the details of multiple conversations with Putin. And his aides moved to suspend the long-established practice of publishing details of Trump’s calls with foreign leaders. How are these things in the national interest?

    Given the current context -- a call with a foreign leader aroused alarm in a whistleblower, and the DNI’s inspector general agreed that his complaint is legitimate -- all that looks even worse in retrospect. We’re seeing the bulldozing of multiple guardrails all at once. And looming behind it all is the overarching factor that Trump just doesn’t seem to be operating in the country’s interests.
     
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  20. mick fry

    mick fry Member

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    This could be the one Rash!

    [​IMG]
     
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